keris and spirit

PenangsangII · 14th June 2007, 03:34 AM

Greetings,

Hana, the possibility that the spirit is hungry is also "unfinished business" that literally means you have not fed him accordingly and periodically. I think you also understand when somebody come into contact with his/her dead ancestors thru dreams, it's sign that the ancestors are "hungry", hence special prayers (tahlil) is conducted by the immediate family members. I believe that treating the "the hungry khadam" also works in this principle though the way / ritual is different.

However, since you have indicated that you know about your "unfinished business" after some soul searching, my "hungry khadam" analogy is no longer relevant

.

Regarding the silent teacher/s, perhaps you should learn how to approach them without making it so obvious that you need to ask something. These teachers are analyzing you before teaching you anything as heavy as spiritual being subject for obvious reasons....

Mr Sepokal....if you are reading this, pls help.

HanaChu69 · 15th June 2007, 08:37 AM

Greetings everyone,

I have decided to confine my findings via email and PM. Spiritual world is indeed very sacred and I do respect some who prefer being anonymous.

Usman – Do revert on my email. Thanks once again for the clarification on the mission and “unfinished business”.

Pak Alan – Thank you very much for the sound advice via PM. I really appreciate it.

Penangsang – I understand your concern for I’m aware that dealing with “pusako” is less risky than the unknown keris spirit. I’m at a disposition having two contrasting “pusako” with different customs and rituals. Btw, Mr. Sepokal has offered his help in establishing my paternal “pusako” but not keris related. I am in contact with him and will approach him should I require further help. For the meanwhile, I will take my time in communicating with all my kerises.

Oh..can we proceed with topics on “tayuh’ and “nayuh’ please….

Sincerely,
HanaChu69

P.S – Apologized to Mans, Usman and the others who chatted halfway and get cut off. There’s seemed to be some problem with my laptop & network connection...

Raden Usman Djogja · 19th June 2007, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HanaChu69

Oh..can we proceed with topics on “tayuh’ and “nayuh’ please….

Sincerely,
HanaChu69
[/I]

Hana,

if I am not mistaken...em...after reading old threads I have a conclusion that a lot of waroeng kopi attendances have very deep understanding of keris.... more than expected before. It means that "tayuh" or "nayuh" is nothing new amongst our colleagues.

I don't have any ability to "nayuh" and, perhaps, just have a little bit information about "tayuh". Based on that little information of "tayuh", it is wise to learn scientific and "pakem"ic (tangguh, sepuh, pamor, and so on) aspects of keris before learning about "tayuh" and doing "nayuh".

Why? I dont know exactly the answer. Perhaps, you must ask to our colleagues either here or by personal message.

Usman

Raden Usman Djogja · 19th June 2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

Hana,

I don't have any ability to "nayuh" and, perhaps, just have a little bit information about "tayuh". Based on that little information of "tayuh", it is wise to learn scientific and "pakem"ic (tangguh, sepuh, pamor, and so on) aspects of keris before learning about "tayuh" and doing "nayuh".

Usman

Hana,

to continue about "nayuh" and "tayuh" (Hana, I do really wanna know these words in english, so please translate it)

one of the greatest challenges in "nayuh" is to differentiate between the imagination and the "real message". to strengthen the ability for differentiating it, imho, it is important to have wide knowledge of keris. Pakem Keris is learnt by mind. "Nayuh" is done by heart/soul. Let mind as a good guardian of heart/soul. Without strong and capable guardian, heart/soul can be trapped nowhere but "fantasy". it is very dangerous, actually.

may I explore by an analogy:

firstly, if I have a thick book: written in the cover "ensiklopedi keris by bambang harsrinuksmo", there are pictures: keris 13 curves outside its sheath. lets imagine all of metioned above just like "tangguh/period, pamor, ricikan/detail, dhapur/model[?]" in a certain keris. these information will be used as a compass.

secondly, I would like to know inside that book. If it is real book, it is very easy, just open it then read. But lets imagine the book is a keris. To know inside, one of the ways, is by doing "nayuh". when in nayuh, I meet with robert langdon and sophie neveu, for the sake of my goodness, I must stop it immediately. Why? instead of getting "real message", I am creating "a fantasy based on dan brown's novel: da vinci code". if in the cover written "ensiklopedi keris", the book (the keris) should explain about keris (its spiritual aspects) inside.

thridly, even in "nayuh" I get images or explanations about keris, I must still need to test and retest it. sometimes, well-planned/well-organized fantasy happens.

em...thats all for now, I must take a bath and go to workplace.

Usman

David · 19th June 2007, 04:08 PM

Usman, you continue to show keen insights on this subject and i find your Da Vinci Code analogy to be quite good.

I do not believe you will find any single word in English that properly discribes nayuh or tayuh so it is probably best to work more on finding a good definition for these words and then continue to these words in the context of our conversation.

I do understand why some may be hesitant to discuss these subjects here on the forum, however i would still like to encourage it. The subject will be taken seriously here and you should have no fear of ridicule. This is also not the type of subject that can be held up to scientific measurement and i will insist that all peoples beliefs be treated with respect and understanding.

HanaChu69 · 20th June 2007, 02:56 AM

“Hana, Calling Usman..Come in Usman”…sorry, I’m very busy lah..

Usman, I shall input my generic understanding on the definition of “menayuh” and “tayuh”. “Menayuh keris” is the procedure in communicating with the keris if that particular keris is fit for the owner. It can be done through dreams or a keris expert. “Tayuh” is to ask what is the mission of the respective keris, who is the “Empu” etc. It can be done only by a person who is expert in this field.

Please do correct me for I may have the wrong perception.

PenangsangII · 20th June 2007, 11:24 AM

Indeed, "menayuh" is very interesting subject but a lot of people from the keris culture would normally avoid discussing it in the open for fear of ridicule by "scientologist" or bashing by the so-called "islamist.

I used to be engaged in a fiery discussion in another forum and was insulted badly by a few forumites when putting across the traditional way of treating the keris in my collection, and the way I communicated with the keris (in this case, the guardian of the keris). From then on, I swear to myself to never again discuss keris in the spiritual context.

So Hana, please be prepared as the non traditionalists will bash you up to the maximum if you are not careful when discussing this subject. Some of them are perhaps what the other forumites termed as "ghost readers" and would definitely jump in when the situation warrants.

penangsangII

p.s. you can offer a special prayers to the person/ancestor whom you have inherited the pusaka from, then place the keris under your pillow before going to sleep.

15th June 2007, 08:37 AM	#2
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Greetings everyone, I have decided to confine my findings via email and PM. Spiritual world is indeed very sacred and I do respect some who prefer being anonymous. Usman – Do revert on my email. Thanks once again for the clarification on the mission and “unfinished business”. Pak Alan – Thank you very much for the sound advice via PM. I really appreciate it. Penangsang – I understand your concern for I’m aware that dealing with “pusako” is less risky than the unknown keris spirit. I’m at a disposition having two contrasting “pusako” with different customs and rituals. Btw, Mr. Sepokal has offered his help in establishing my paternal “pusako” but not keris related. I am in contact with him and will approach him should I require further help. For the meanwhile, I will take my time in communicating with all my kerises. Oh..can we proceed with topics on “tayuh’ and “nayuh’ please…. Sincerely, HanaChu69 P.S – Apologized to Mans, Usman and the others who chatted halfway and get cut off. There’s seemed to be some problem with my laptop & network connection...

20th June 2007, 02:56 AM	#6
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! “Hana, Calling Usman..Come in Usman”…sorry, I’m very busy lah.. Usman, I shall input my generic understanding on the definition of “menayuh” and “tayuh”. “Menayuh keris” is the procedure in communicating with the keris if that particular keris is fit for the owner. It can be done through dreams or a keris expert. “Tayuh” is to ask what is the mission of the respective keris, who is the “Empu” etc. It can be done only by a person who is expert in this field. Please do correct me for I may have the wrong perception.

14th June 2007, 03:34 AM	#1
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Greetings, Hana, the possibility that the spirit is hungry is also "unfinished business" that literally means you have not fed him accordingly and periodically. I think you also understand when somebody come into contact with his/her dead ancestors thru dreams, it's sign that the ancestors are "hungry", hence special prayers (tahlil) is conducted by the immediate family members. I believe that treating the "the hungry khadam" also works in this principle though the way / ritual is different. However, since you have indicated that you know about your "unfinished business" after some soul searching, my "hungry khadam" analogy is no longer relevant . Regarding the silent teacher/s, perhaps you should learn how to approach them without making it so obvious that you need to ask something. These teachers are analyzing you before teaching you anything as heavy as spiritual being subject for obvious reasons.... Mr Sepokal....if you are reading this, pls help.

19th June 2007, 04:08 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Usman, you continue to show keen insights on this subject and i find your Da Vinci Code analogy to be quite good. I do not believe you will find any single word in English that properly discribes nayuh or tayuh so it is probably best to work more on finding a good definition for these words and then continue to these words in the context of our conversation. I do understand why some may be hesitant to discuss these subjects here on the forum, however i would still like to encourage it. The subject will be taken seriously here and you should have no fear of ridicule. This is also not the type of subject that can be held up to scientific measurement and i will insist that all peoples beliefs be treated with respect and understanding.

20th June 2007, 11:24 AM	#7
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Indeed, "menayuh" is very interesting subject but a lot of people from the keris culture would normally avoid discussing it in the open for fear of ridicule by "scientologist" or bashing by the so-called "islamist. I used to be engaged in a fiery discussion in another forum and was insulted badly by a few forumites when putting across the traditional way of treating the keris in my collection, and the way I communicated with the keris (in this case, the guardian of the keris). From then on, I swear to myself to never again discuss keris in the spiritual context. So Hana, please be prepared as the non traditionalists will bash you up to the maximum if you are not careful when discussing this subject. Some of them are perhaps what the other forumites termed as "ghost readers" and would definitely jump in when the situation warrants. penangsangII p.s. you can offer a special prayers to the person/ancestor whom you have inherited the pusaka from, then place the keris under your pillow before going to sleep.