Old Faceted Head Knobkerrie For Comment

Tim Simmons · 4th June 2007, 09:16 PM

Nice clubs. I do not know why but I like clubs. The thought of bludgening or being bludgeoned is horrible. Mind you being slashed up by some nut cases sharp steel is not very nice either.

Lew · 4th June 2007, 09:31 PM

[QUOTE=Tim Simmons]Nice clubs. I do not know why but I like clubs.

Tim

It must be the caveman is us.

Jim McDougall · 5th June 2007, 01:49 PM

Lew LOL!!!!

That poor Neanderthal guy is really gonna need therapy with that one!!!

Can you guys say more on identifying knobkerries as Zulu, which I pretty much presumed were the prime users of these. Also, I honestly was unaware of faceted examples, what would specify East African with this feature?
Wish I could be more specific, but would like to know about these and even general info would be a great help.
Thanks very much,
Jim

CharlesS · 5th June 2007, 02:59 PM

My generalization that it may be E. African comes from its overall shape and the curvature of the haft putting the 'knob' clearly on one side of the haft(Masaai and Kikuyu types are an example). The shape of the knob was not one of the reasons I suggested E. African. In more typical S. African designs the knob is found in the top center of the haft. I am sure there are exceptions in both cases, and these are just generaliztions on my part, again African clubs are "not my thing" and I am only partially familiar with them.

It's an interesting, quality example regardless of its origin.

Lew · 5th June 2007, 03:21 PM

Jim

I emailed Ian Knight and showed him the link. He thinks it's an older form of Zulu club circa 1879 or earlier.

Lew.

The Double D · 5th June 2007, 04:26 PM

I have faceted knobkerrie that trade 10 rand and two bags of christmas candy for...got it from a 12 year Zulu cow herd this past Christmas.

Sorry for bringing up values, but it is part of the story of the acquisition

Tim Simmons · 5th June 2007, 06:03 PM

Well I am sure this one is East African, south Sudan? Uganda? and towards the big lakes.

The Double D · 6th June 2007, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Jim

I emailed Ian Knight and showed him the link. He thinks it's an older form of Zulu club circa 1879 or earlier.

Lew.

With all due respect to Mr. Knight, I don't believe it possible to make such an estimation from the picture. The picture quality is not that great and the club just doesn't "look old". The pattern may be old, but I just don't think the club is....ain't young either. 1950-1970's maybe...that's my WAG.

VANDOO · 6th June 2007, 03:31 PM

AH YES THE FAMOUS DEBEERS FACET CUT MUST HAVE BELONGED TO A LADY AS THEY SEEM TO END UP WITH ALL THE DIAMONDS.

Lew · 6th June 2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Double D

With all due respect to Mr. Knight, I don't believe it possible to make such an estimation from the picture. The picture quality is not that great and the club just doesn't "look old". The pattern may be old, but I just don't think the club is....ain't young either. 1950-1970's maybe...that's my WAG.

DD

This is where I must disagree with you. It is very hard to determine age when it comes to patina on these clubs. Here is a club that came with providence dating back to the 1920s it belonged to an American geologist who was involved with the copper mining in the Congo. When I first received it it looked terrible but after a bit of polish it came out nice. The patina does not look much different than the club with the faceted head. Ian was basing his opinion on the the over all quality of the facet work on the head he said that more recent versions lack the quality work found on this club. The club may not be from 1879 and without providence it is hard to prove but sometimes you just have to go with estimates and opinions of other more experienced persons in that particular field of study. Still whatever the age it's a nice example of this type of club.

Lew

The Double D · 6th June 2007, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

My generalization that it may be E. African comes from its overall shape and the curvature of the haft putting the 'knob' clearly on one side of the haft(Masaai and Kikuyu types are an example). The shape of the knob was not one of the reasons I suggested E. African. In more typical S. African designs the knob is found in the top center of the haft. I am sure there are exceptions in both cases, and these are just generaliztions on my part, again African clubs are "not my thing" and I am only partially familiar with them.

It's an interesting, quality example regardless of its origin.

I don't agree with your generalization Charles. I think "luck of the draw" for source of the material and type of construction has more to do with whether is aclub is off set than any regional consideration.

In my wife's Knobkerrie collection gathered here in Zululand we have both central head and off set.

All of our off set clubs are rootballs. All the central heads are carved sticks. Two of the offset heads came from Zulu sources, one came from amaPhondo. All Nguni people in Southern Africa.

Edited to add picture and clarify the point on our off set clubs

4th June 2007, 09:31 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	[QUOTE=Tim Simmons]Nice clubs. I do not know why but I like clubs. Tim It must be the caveman is us. Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 4th June 2007 at 09:48 PM.

4th June 2007, 09:16 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Nice clubs. I do not know why but I like clubs. The thought of bludgening or being bludgeoned is horrible. Mind you being slashed up by some nut cases sharp steel is not very nice either.

5th June 2007, 01:49 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Lew LOL!!!! That poor Neanderthal guy is really gonna need therapy with that one!!! Can you guys say more on identifying knobkerries as Zulu, which I pretty much presumed were the prime users of these. Also, I honestly was unaware of faceted examples, what would specify East African with this feature? Wish I could be more specific, but would like to know about these and even general info would be a great help. Thanks very much, Jim

5th June 2007, 02:59 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	My generalization that it may be E. African comes from its overall shape and the curvature of the haft putting the 'knob' clearly on one side of the haft(Masaai and Kikuyu types are an example). The shape of the knob was not one of the reasons I suggested E. African. In more typical S. African designs the knob is found in the top center of the haft. I am sure there are exceptions in both cases, and these are just generaliztions on my part, again African clubs are "not my thing" and I am only partially familiar with them. It's an interesting, quality example regardless of its origin.

5th June 2007, 03:21 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Jim I emailed Ian Knight and showed him the link. He thinks it's an older form of Zulu club circa 1879 or earlier. Lew.

5th June 2007, 04:26 PM	#6
The Double D Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana Posts: 189	I have faceted knobkerrie that trade 10 rand and two bags of christmas candy for...got it from a 12 year Zulu cow herd this past Christmas. Sorry for bringing up values, but it is part of the story of the acquisition

5th June 2007, 06:03 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Well I am sure this one is East African, south Sudan? Uganda? and towards the big lakes.

6th June 2007, 03:31 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	AH YES THE FAMOUS DEBEERS FACET CUT MUST HAVE BELONGED TO A LADY AS THEY SEEM TO END UP WITH ALL THE DIAMONDS.