Pics: Jawa Demam Hilts

VVV · 1st June 2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

You're making me sound like an arrogant fool Michael---which maybe I am---but not because of what I have written here....

Alan,

I appreciate that you share your knowledge within this field.
But my knowledge on this topic originates from books only (other peoples knowledge and research) which limits me to participate in this discussion if you want me to show you proof of what's behind my sources.
I hope this clarifies my earlier explanation so you don't take it as an insult, which wasn't my intention at all.

Michael

A. G. Maisey · 1st June 2007, 02:35 PM

No offence taken Michael.

This is simply gentle discussion.

My personal field experience has very little bearing on what I have said in this discussion.

Weiner:- any investigation of the nature of Weiner's can only report on current belief, it cannot report on what may have been the original story or circumstances. The authors of such reports, including Weiner, recognise this. They present their findings as a report of current belief, not as fact, not as history.

Dewi Sri/Bhatari Uma:- Balinese culture; its in the books, not my discovery nor my opinion.

Jejeran as a representation of Dewi Sri:- my opinion , supported by logical argument; sloppily constructed, admittedly, and if necessary I can tighten it and lengthen it, but the elements are already there, and they will not change. In opposition to my supported opinion we currently have an unsupported opinion. If this is Martin Kerner's opinion, I would hope that he provided evidence or argument to support it.

Let's just focus on the core issue, the jejeran.

I suggest that we give this a rest until you are clear of other obligations, then you can come back to the table with the evidence or argument to make me change my mind. I assure you, I am quite ready to change my mind on this issue, or any other issue, if adequate argument or evidence is produced.

Alam Shah · 1st June 2007, 04:05 PM

Good healthy discussion.

I guess, we'll call it jejeran 'wadon' for short.

David · 1st June 2007, 07:53 PM

Yes, this has been a wonderful discussion and as more information is gathered i encourage it to continue. My understanding of this hilt form has grown exponientially from this thread

Once again i would like to stress that disagreement is a heathy thing and can only lead to new discoveries and understandings. No one should be hesitant to put forth their ideas and theories on this forum. I only insist that the conversation remain civil, as this one certainly has.

ganjawulung · 20th June 2007, 07:06 AM

Dear All,

This is more pictures, on what some of you called it "the durga hilt". I got this newer collection of such hilt yesterday, but in a rather different model of "durga" (or dewi Sri, according to Alan).

The hand position is the same, but the proportion of length of its hand is different. The wood also different. The later one (the black one) is made of light ebony (?) wood. Very light, much lighter than ebony. But very black...

Ganjawulung

20th June 2007, 07:06 AM	#5
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	(More) Durga Hilt Dear All, This is more pictures, on what some of you called it "the durga hilt". I got this newer collection of such hilt yesterday, but in a rather different model of "durga" (or dewi Sri, according to Alan). The hand position is the same, but the proportion of length of its hand is different. The wood also different. The later one (the black one) is made of light ebony (?) wood. Very light, much lighter than ebony. But very black... Ganjawulung Attached Images

1st June 2007, 02:35 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	No offence taken Michael. This is simply gentle discussion. My personal field experience has very little bearing on what I have said in this discussion. Weiner:- any investigation of the nature of Weiner's can only report on current belief, it cannot report on what may have been the original story or circumstances. The authors of such reports, including Weiner, recognise this. They present their findings as a report of current belief, not as fact, not as history. Dewi Sri/Bhatari Uma:- Balinese culture; its in the books, not my discovery nor my opinion. Jejeran as a representation of Dewi Sri:- my opinion , supported by logical argument; sloppily constructed, admittedly, and if necessary I can tighten it and lengthen it, but the elements are already there, and they will not change. In opposition to my supported opinion we currently have an unsupported opinion. If this is Martin Kerner's opinion, I would hope that he provided evidence or argument to support it. Let's just focus on the core issue, the jejeran. I suggest that we give this a rest until you are clear of other obligations, then you can come back to the table with the evidence or argument to make me change my mind. I assure you, I am quite ready to change my mind on this issue, or any other issue, if adequate argument or evidence is produced.

1st June 2007, 04:05 PM	#3
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Good healthy discussion. I guess, we'll call it jejeran 'wadon' for short.

1st June 2007, 07:53 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Yes, this has been a wonderful discussion and as more information is gathered i encourage it to continue. My understanding of this hilt form has grown exponientially from this thread Once again i would like to stress that disagreement is a heathy thing and can only lead to new discoveries and understandings. No one should be hesitant to put forth their ideas and theories on this forum. I only insist that the conversation remain civil, as this one certainly has.