BUNTEL MAYAT

ganjawulung · 30th May 2007, 02:14 AM

Dear Alan,
The problem is so simple for me: (1) I didn't find any clue that the pamor known by many of me as "buntel mayit" actually was "buntel mayat". (2) I'm not a linguist, so I don't know the language problem. (3) I'm sure that "buntel mayit" is not a sasak word, so I don't need to find somebody who understand sasak (3) I can not speak sasak, so I don't know what "tambangan badung" means.

Ganjawulung

ganjawulung · 30th May 2007, 02:31 AM

And this comes from Alwi Moerad, from Mataram Lombok. According to him, "tambangan badung" means rope from the kingdom of badung in bali...

A. G. Maisey · 30th May 2007, 04:08 AM

Oh well Ganja, if you cannot see the problems I have attempted to outline, if you cannot see the co-relation between the physical appearance of pamor buntel mayat, and the meaning of buntel mayat, then I reckon I must write English in a very much less clear fashion than I try to.

Yep, buntel mayat sure ain't Sasak, but tambangan has its roots in Old Javanese. Pretty much what I guessed at yesterday.

Obviously buntel mayat, or if you prefer, buntel mayit, is a comparatively recent name, dating at its earliest from the 17th century.

I reckon we've just about come full circle on this discussion.

We can all believe whatever we wish.

We can go with the flow, or we can accept the belief of one of the great ahli keris, and trust the verification of logic and history.

David · 30th May 2007, 04:30 AM

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but i personally find this discussion absolutely fascinating!

Thank you gentlemen.

A. G. Maisey · 30th May 2007, 05:16 AM

Frankly David, I've just about reached the limit of time that I'm prepared to put into this subject.

As soon as I put up the first post I knew I should not have. This subject really needs a 5000 word paper to do it justice.

Its the same old story:- one can be a collector and simply accept what is put in front of one, classify, number, catalogue and have feel-good conversations, or one can dig into the hows, wheres, and whys of things.

At this point I really don't feel like going any further with the simplistic approach I have been trying to stay with so far, and I'm sure not going to write a paper.

You know the old song:- you say tomahtoes, and I say tomaytas---well mate, that's about how about where I'm prepared to let it rest.

David · 30th May 2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Frankly David, I've just about reached the limit of time that I'm prepared to put into this subject.

You know the old song:- you say tomahtoes, and I say tomaytas---well mate, that's about how about where I'm prepared to let it rest.

Yes Alan, i was sensing that you were just about finished with the suject which was why i was thanking you for your imput.

...and i think you may have gotten that tomayto/tomahto thing backwards.

Ganja, we can continue to discuss this matter if you like, but i doubt we will come to any definitive answer. Alan has presented an alternative to the status quo presented by the contemporary keris world. I personally am inclined to accept Alan's theory not only because i find much sense and logic in it, but also because of the source of his information which comes as a direct line of teaching from a well known and respected ahli keris and empu. I therefore consider it "living knowledge" as opposed to book knowledge.
Others will choose to continue to follow the status quo, which i believe you defended quite well.Thank you again for your imput in this thread. I am a bit confused though as to why you feel that "either "buntel mayat" or "bungkus mayat"...are more horrible and more terrorizing than "buntel mayit""

ganjawulung · 30th May 2007, 02:13 PM

[QUOTE=David I therefore consider it "living knowledge" as opposed to book knowledge.
[/QUOTE]

Hmmm....

30th May 2007, 02:14 AM	#1
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Dear Alan, The problem is so simple for me: (1) I didn't find any clue that the pamor known by many of me as "buntel mayit" actually was "buntel mayat". (2) I'm not a linguist, so I don't know the language problem. (3) I'm sure that "buntel mayit" is not a sasak word, so I don't need to find somebody who understand sasak (3) I can not speak sasak, so I don't know what "tambangan badung" means. Ganjawulung

30th May 2007, 02:31 AM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	And this comes from Alwi Moerad, from Mataram Lombok. According to him, "tambangan badung" means rope from the kingdom of badung in bali...

30th May 2007, 04:08 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	Oh well Ganja, if you cannot see the problems I have attempted to outline, if you cannot see the co-relation between the physical appearance of pamor buntel mayat, and the meaning of buntel mayat, then I reckon I must write English in a very much less clear fashion than I try to. Yep, buntel mayat sure ain't Sasak, but tambangan has its roots in Old Javanese. Pretty much what I guessed at yesterday. Obviously buntel mayat, or if you prefer, buntel mayit, is a comparatively recent name, dating at its earliest from the 17th century. I reckon we've just about come full circle on this discussion. We can all believe whatever we wish. We can go with the flow, or we can accept the belief of one of the great ahli keris, and trust the verification of logic and history.

30th May 2007, 04:30 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	I don't know about the rest of you guys, but i personally find this discussion absolutely fascinating! Thank you gentlemen.

30th May 2007, 05:16 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	Frankly David, I've just about reached the limit of time that I'm prepared to put into this subject. As soon as I put up the first post I knew I should not have. This subject really needs a 5000 word paper to do it justice. Its the same old story:- one can be a collector and simply accept what is put in front of one, classify, number, catalogue and have feel-good conversations, or one can dig into the hows, wheres, and whys of things. At this point I really don't feel like going any further with the simplistic approach I have been trying to stay with so far, and I'm sure not going to write a paper. You know the old song:- you say tomahtoes, and I say tomaytas---well mate, that's about how about where I'm prepared to let it rest.

30th May 2007, 02:13 PM	#7
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	[QUOTE=David I therefore consider it "living knowledge" as opposed to book knowledge. [/QUOTE] Hmmm....