P a t r e m -- The Smaller Keris

ganjawulung · 24th May 2007, 02:09 PM

Thanks David, and Alan,

I should try to get the proper hilt to fit this Madurese patrem. And I will gather more information on "women keris" patrem. But what Shahrial told us, is also true although not completely true, that smaller keris is for boys.

Small kerises for women, also known in Javanese society. Sometimes, erronously called the smaller kerises or patrem with "cundrik". Cundrik (spelt as "choon-drik") itself is a certain dhapur's name (looks like small "pedang sabet" or kind of little sword). Some small kerises for "sajen" (sacrifice) in the Majapahit era or Mataram, also bears dhapur cundrik. Maybe because of many "sajen" kerises which are usually small, some Javanese people erronously called the small kerises as cundriks.

Weapon for women, in Javanese society, is not only in patrem form. There are also kinds of "secret weapon" for women. Usually they wear as a "tusuk konde" (stick for pinning the "gelungan" or rounded women hairs). Some weapon like this, sometimes with pamor too. This weapon, of course in the old days meant for women self-defense. (Today's woman, use special spray to guard themself from other's abuse in the street).

In some dancing, or wayang theater, women sometimes armed themselves with kerises. And their kerises, of course, the patrem type. Usuallly they don't put their patrem behind your waist like the men do, but in front of the waist. Usually, the sheaths are "sandang walikat".

I will search more information on this matter, Dave...

Ganjawulung

Alam Shah · 24th May 2007, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Thanks David, and Alan,

I should try to get the proper hilt to fit this Madurese patrem. And I will gather more information on "women keris" patrem. But what Shahrial told us, is also true although not completely true, that smaller keris is for boys.

What I said was referring to my piece, in Malay Peninsular context, and not in Javanese context. Just to clear things up.

Lew · 24th May 2007, 04:58 PM

Here is the smallest one I have blade is about 9-10" would it be considered a patrem keris?

Alam Shah · 24th May 2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Here is the smallest one I have blade is about 9-10" would it be considered a patrem keris?

Qualified for 'patrem' class... de ja vu...

David · 24th May 2007, 05:58 PM

Well Lew, you had a patrem...and you sold it to me, thanks.

Lew · 24th May 2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well Lew, you had a patrem...and you sold it to me, thanks.

David

Did you ever find a hilt for it?

Lew

David · 24th May 2007, 08:58 PM

Lew, that's it in my post up above, the one on the left. I think this hilt is a little too large, but short of having one made for it it was the best i could do for now.

josh stout · 24th May 2007, 06:10 PM

Thank you for explaining about the training of young boys in connection to patrem. My teacher who is Chinese Indonesian "washed" his keris patrem with his father every Friday. It is a strong memory for him and he uses it as an example of how one must be diligent and regularly strive to improve. I don't think he was allowed to walk around with his patrem, but it was part of a lesson in responsibility and how to be an adult.
Josh

David · 24th May 2007, 06:21 PM

Josh, generally i understand "washing" a keris as emersing it in fruit acids in preparation for fresh staining. Is this what you mean. I would think it more likely that on a weekly basis one might "feed" a keris with offerrings, incense and oil. Weekly "washing" seems a bit excessive to me.

24th May 2007, 04:58 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here is the smallest one I have blade is about 9-10" would it be considered a patrem keris? Attached Images

24th May 2007, 02:09 PM	#1
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Thanks David, and Alan, I should try to get the proper hilt to fit this Madurese patrem. And I will gather more information on "women keris" patrem. But what Shahrial told us, is also true although not completely true, that smaller keris is for boys. Small kerises for women, also known in Javanese society. Sometimes, erronously called the smaller kerises or patrem with "cundrik". Cundrik (spelt as "choon-drik") itself is a certain dhapur's name (looks like small "pedang sabet" or kind of little sword). Some small kerises for "sajen" (sacrifice) in the Majapahit era or Mataram, also bears dhapur cundrik. Maybe because of many "sajen" kerises which are usually small, some Javanese people erronously called the small kerises as cundriks. Weapon for women, in Javanese society, is not only in patrem form. There are also kinds of "secret weapon" for women. Usually they wear as a "tusuk konde" (stick for pinning the "gelungan" or rounded women hairs). Some weapon like this, sometimes with pamor too. This weapon, of course in the old days meant for women self-defense. (Today's woman, use special spray to guard themself from other's abuse in the street). In some dancing, or wayang theater, women sometimes armed themselves with kerises. And their kerises, of course, the patrem type. Usuallly they don't put their patrem behind your waist like the men do, but in front of the waist. Usually, the sheaths are "sandang walikat". I will search more information on this matter, Dave... Ganjawulung

24th May 2007, 05:58 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Well Lew, you had a patrem...and you sold it to me, thanks.

24th May 2007, 08:58 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Lew, that's it in my post up above, the one on the left. I think this hilt is a little too large, but short of having one made for it it was the best i could do for now.

24th May 2007, 06:10 PM	#8
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Thank you for explaining about the training of young boys in connection to patrem. My teacher who is Chinese Indonesian "washed" his keris patrem with his father every Friday. It is a strong memory for him and he uses it as an example of how one must be diligent and regularly strive to improve. I don't think he was allowed to walk around with his patrem, but it was part of a lesson in responsibility and how to be an adult. Josh

24th May 2007, 06:21 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Josh, generally i understand "washing" a keris as emersing it in fruit acids in preparation for fresh staining. Is this what you mean. I would think it more likely that on a weekly basis one might "feed" a keris with offerrings, incense and oil. Weekly "washing" seems a bit excessive to me.