P a t r e m -- The Smaller Keris

[ganjawulung]

Hi All,

Here is one more smaller keris. Old Madurese keris and sheath, but I'm sorry the Jawa Demam hilt is not suitable -- although an old old ivory one. Like Brekele in the other thread (Welcome again, Brekele..), I would like to ask you, is there any "raja gundala" (rojo gundolo) in this sor-soran of the blade?

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

... I would like to ask you, is there any "raja gundala" (rojo gundolo) in this sor-soran of the blade?

I see an abstract of "a mother sitting, taking care of her baby", or is it my imagination.

Btw, ganja... nice collection your have there... I appreciate your attention to details. For the hilt, you should get a 'badjang terbang' type.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

I... For the hilt, you should get a 'badjang terbang' type.

Like this maybe?
Do you think it is too big, the hilt? It is quite difficult to find such small handle for fitting smaller keris like this...

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Like this maybe?
Do you think it is too big, the hilt? It is quite difficult to find such small handle for fitting smaller keris like this...

Nope, it's not too big... but normally, pieces with that type of selut, do not require a mendak. Without the mendak would look better, me think.

I've posted a picture of my previous patrem hilt.

[David]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

I see an abstract of "a mother sitting, taking care of her baby", or is it my imagination.

Well of course it is your imagination....but i am also imagining a similar scene.
I am curious how you can distiguish that the patrem you have linked to is a "boy's keris". Do you have provenence on this piece or is there a particular clue that points to it's use by a boy instead of a women?
Very nice patrem, Ganja. I agree with Alam Shah that the medak is unnecessary with that selut and it would make the appearence of the hilt that much smaller without it. I understand the problem of finding a small enough hilt for patrems. My Sulawesi one came without a hilt and i feel the one i have found for it is just a bit too large...but it will due for now.
Since we are on the subject, i wonder if anyone can share more information about the patrem in the context of Indonesian society. They are relatively rare, so it would seem that a patrem would only be owned by a small class of women (and some small boys as well ). What do we know about the patrem's place in society?

[ganjawulung]

Thanks David, and Alan,

I should try to get the proper hilt to fit this Madurese patrem. And I will gather more information on "women keris" patrem. But what Shahrial told us, is also true although not completely true, that smaller keris is for boys.

Small kerises for women, also known in Javanese society. Sometimes, erronously called the smaller kerises or patrem with "cundrik". Cundrik (spelt as "choon-drik") itself is a certain dhapur's name (looks like small "pedang sabet" or kind of little sword). Some small kerises for "sajen" (sacrifice) in the Majapahit era or Mataram, also bears dhapur cundrik. Maybe because of many "sajen" kerises which are usually small, some Javanese people erronously called the small kerises as cundriks.

Weapon for women, in Javanese society, is not only in patrem form. There are also kinds of "secret weapon" for women. Usually they wear as a "tusuk konde" (stick for pinning the "gelungan" or rounded women hairs). Some weapon like this, sometimes with pamor too. This weapon, of course in the old days meant for women self-defense. (Today's woman, use special spray to guard themself from other's abuse in the street).

In some dancing, or wayang theater, women sometimes armed themselves with kerises. And their kerises, of course, the patrem type. Usuallly they don't put their patrem behind your waist like the men do, but in front of the waist. Usually, the sheaths are "sandang walikat".

I will search more information on this matter, Dave...

Ganjawulung

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Thanks David, and Alan,

I should try to get the proper hilt to fit this Madurese patrem. And I will gather more information on "women keris" patrem. But what Shahrial told us, is also true although not completely true, that smaller keris is for boys.

What I said was referring to my piece, in Malay Peninsular context, and not in Javanese context. Just to clear things up.

[Lew]

Here is the smallest one I have blade is about 9-10" would it be considered a patrem keris?

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Here is the smallest one I have blade is about 9-10" would it be considered a patrem keris?

Qualified for 'patrem' class... de ja vu...