P a t r e m -- The Smaller Keris

ganjawulung · 22nd May 2007, 04:33 PM

Dear All,

Certainly, this is not a scene in Golgotha. I just want so share with you all about the Smaller Keris the Javanese call it as "patrem". So small, that people often call the patrem as "keris for women". The size is about -- in Javanese word: "sekilan". Or the size of spreading fingers, from thumb to the other end of the finger (I miss my English word for my smallest finger)...

The patrem's dhapur is usually very simple: straight and no much details (ricikan). Mostly, dhapur "brojol", "tilamupih", "tilamsari". But sometimes "naga" motives too.

This time, I will show you a keris which was reshaped (I don't know the exact word of Javanese "dibesut" or "keris besutan" in English) by may favorite Solonese keris-maker, Sukamdi. Almost not changed the size, and certainly not change the ricikan (details) or added something in the blade, except renew the "greneng" (I don't even know the right English word for this, please David). So actually, the form is still Majapahit patrem, but seems very brand new. Sorry for to do that. Because, such action is allowed in Solonese people, but prohibited in the neighboring city, Yogyakarta. Very sorry for that...

Ganjawulung

ganjawulung · 22nd May 2007, 04:59 PM

I am so sorry, these are the pictures...

ganjawulung · 22nd May 2007, 09:22 PM

This patrem bears naga motive, but the very simple naga. The hilt is Cirebonese. And the sheath is a small "sandang walikat" style, made of forest-mango (mangga hutan) wood. The blade is still in original form...

David · 23rd May 2007, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Almost not changed the size, and certainly not change the ricikan (details) or added something in the blade, except renew the "greneng" (I don't even know the right English word for this, please David).

Don't worry Ganja, i would use the Javanese tern "greneng" in this case as well.

Sometimes, as with terms like gonjo, sogokan, etc. it is just the easiest way.
Here are my humble offerrings in this classification, one Sumatran and 3 Madurese patrem...but please don't ask to see the blades.

ganjawulung · 23rd May 2007, 05:26 AM

Thanks David,

I don't even have a Sumatran keris or sheath. Hilts, maybe I have. I am sorry for my "Indonesian" English in this forum (In-glish)...

Newsteel · 23rd May 2007, 09:24 AM

Patrem keris may not be necessarily for a woman. It could also meant for a young boy (age 7-12 yrs old).

Olden days, being a small boy was to play and sometime helps their parent at work, other than schooling. Having the first keris (mostly keris patrem) is their first so-called responsibility, that is to take good care of that keris. But this has another depth meaning. A task so as not to 'play around' with the keris (fighting, create trouble, harm or bullying others). Simply said a father would want his boy to build his character to be a responsible and wise man.

ganjawulung · 23rd May 2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newsteel

Patrem keris may not be necessarily for a woman. It could also meant for a young boy (age 7-12 yrs old).

You are right, Newsteel,

In Javanese villages, dhukun (practitioners) also use patrem, or even smaller than patrem (amulet-keris). It is more difficult to find good patrems than good kerises. And the specific accessories for patrem, are also rare. Old patrem's hilts, are seldom. And also the mendhak...

Raden Usman Djogja · 23rd May 2007, 10:52 AM

Gonjo,

You have a lot of nice and good collection.

Us

VVV · 23rd May 2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

You are right, Newsteel,

In Javanese villages, dhukun (practitioners) also use patrem, or even smaller than patrem (amulet-keris). It is more difficult to find good patrems than good kerises. And the specific accessories for patrem, are also rare. Old patrem's hilts, are seldom. And also the mendhak...

Ganja,

I have this very small keris, 31 cm overall (like a keris sajen), that was supposed to be used at ceremonial rites in Banjarmasin.
Do you know more about how, and for what, a dukun used the small keris?

Michael

ganjawulung · 23rd May 2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Ganja,

I have this very small keris, 31 cm overall (like a keris sajen), that was supposed to be used at ceremonial rites in Banjarmasin.
Do you know more about how, and for what, a dukun used the small keris?

Michael

Wow, Michael,

It is amazing that you, in Sweden, still have an original keris. I dare to say, that you don't change any parts of the keris. And probably, it hasn't changed yet from the origin. Everything, from blade, sheath, hilt, pendhok perak (silver), seems old and not changed...

I just had a few experience in practitioner's kerises. What I saw once or twice is, that the practitioner believed in magical strength of the keris, to get the answer of his customer's request. Maybe Mas Boedi Adhitya knows better than me on this field...

ganjawulung · 23rd May 2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

Gonjo,

You have a lot of nice and good collection.

Us

Thanks, Raden.

I just want to share with other people who are concerned on keris. But I learned from you, about spiritual attitude surround kerises. That's the "bobot" or inner quality of the keris world. Something that is neglected by mostly modern people. "The spirit of keris" is one of the most important thing we must learn from this world of kerises..

ganjawulung · 24th May 2007, 06:21 AM

Hi All,

Here is one more smaller keris. Old Madurese keris and sheath, but I'm sorry the Jawa Demam hilt is not suitable -- although an old old ivory one. Like Brekele in the other thread (Welcome again, Brekele..), I would like to ask you, is there any "raja gundala" (rojo gundolo) in this sor-soran of the blade?

Alam Shah · 24th May 2007, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

... I would like to ask you, is there any "raja gundala" (rojo gundolo) in this sor-soran of the blade?

I see an abstract of "a mother sitting, taking care of her baby", or is it my imagination.

Btw, ganja... nice collection your have there... I appreciate your attention to details. For the hilt, you should get a 'badjang terbang' type.

Alam Shah · 24th May 2007, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newsteel

Patrem keris may not be necessarily for a woman. It could also meant for a young boy (age 7-12 yrs old)....

Here's a Peninsular styled, boy's keris.

ganjawulung · 24th May 2007, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

I... For the hilt, you should get a 'badjang terbang' type.

Like this maybe?
Do you think it is too big, the hilt? It is quite difficult to find such small handle for fitting smaller keris like this...

Alam Shah · 24th May 2007, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Like this maybe?
Do you think it is too big, the hilt? It is quite difficult to find such small handle for fitting smaller keris like this...

Nope, it's not too big... but normally, pieces with that type of selut, do not require a mendak. Without the mendak would look better, me think.

I've posted a picture of my previous patrem hilt.

David · 24th May 2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

I see an abstract of "a mother sitting, taking care of her baby", or is it my imagination.

Well of course it is your imagination....but i am also imagining a similar scene.

I am curious how you can distiguish that the patrem you have linked to is a "boy's keris". Do you have provenence on this piece or is there a particular clue that points to it's use by a boy instead of a women?
Very nice patrem, Ganja. I agree with Alam Shah that the medak is unnecessary with that selut and it would make the appearence of the hilt that much smaller without it. I understand the problem of finding a small enough hilt for patrems. My Sulawesi one came without a hilt and i feel the one i have found for it is just a bit too large...but it will due for now.

Since we are on the subject, i wonder if anyone can share more information about the patrem in the context of Indonesian society. They are relatively rare, so it would seem that a patrem would only be owned by a small class of women (and some small boys as well

). What do we know about the patrem's place in society?

ganjawulung · 24th May 2007, 02:09 PM

Thanks David, and Alan,

I should try to get the proper hilt to fit this Madurese patrem. And I will gather more information on "women keris" patrem. But what Shahrial told us, is also true although not completely true, that smaller keris is for boys.

Small kerises for women, also known in Javanese society. Sometimes, erronously called the smaller kerises or patrem with "cundrik". Cundrik (spelt as "choon-drik") itself is a certain dhapur's name (looks like small "pedang sabet" or kind of little sword). Some small kerises for "sajen" (sacrifice) in the Majapahit era or Mataram, also bears dhapur cundrik. Maybe because of many "sajen" kerises which are usually small, some Javanese people erronously called the small kerises as cundriks.

Weapon for women, in Javanese society, is not only in patrem form. There are also kinds of "secret weapon" for women. Usually they wear as a "tusuk konde" (stick for pinning the "gelungan" or rounded women hairs). Some weapon like this, sometimes with pamor too. This weapon, of course in the old days meant for women self-defense. (Today's woman, use special spray to guard themself from other's abuse in the street).

In some dancing, or wayang theater, women sometimes armed themselves with kerises. And their kerises, of course, the patrem type. Usuallly they don't put their patrem behind your waist like the men do, but in front of the waist. Usually, the sheaths are "sandang walikat".

I will search more information on this matter, Dave...

Ganjawulung

Alam Shah · 24th May 2007, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Thanks David, and Alan,

I should try to get the proper hilt to fit this Madurese patrem. And I will gather more information on "women keris" patrem. But what Shahrial told us, is also true although not completely true, that smaller keris is for boys.

What I said was referring to my piece, in Malay Peninsular context, and not in Javanese context. Just to clear things up.

Lew · 24th May 2007, 04:58 PM

Here is the smallest one I have blade is about 9-10" would it be considered a patrem keris?

Alam Shah · 24th May 2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Here is the smallest one I have blade is about 9-10" would it be considered a patrem keris?

Qualified for 'patrem' class... de ja vu...

David · 24th May 2007, 05:58 PM

Well Lew, you had a patrem...and you sold it to me, thanks.

josh stout · 24th May 2007, 06:10 PM

Thank you for explaining about the training of young boys in connection to patrem. My teacher who is Chinese Indonesian "washed" his keris patrem with his father every Friday. It is a strong memory for him and he uses it as an example of how one must be diligent and regularly strive to improve. I don't think he was allowed to walk around with his patrem, but it was part of a lesson in responsibility and how to be an adult.
Josh

David · 24th May 2007, 06:21 PM

Josh, generally i understand "washing" a keris as emersing it in fruit acids in preparation for fresh staining. Is this what you mean. I would think it more likely that on a weekly basis one might "feed" a keris with offerrings, incense and oil. Weekly "washing" seems a bit excessive to me.

Lew · 24th May 2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well Lew, you had a patrem...and you sold it to me, thanks.

David

Did you ever find a hilt for it?

Lew

David · 24th May 2007, 08:58 PM

Lew, that's it in my post up above, the one on the left. I think this hilt is a little too large, but short of having one made for it it was the best i could do for now.

HanaChu69 · 3rd June 2007, 06:45 AM

Hi,

I’m a regular guest to warung kopi but somehow this thread has caught my interest. I always have great fascination for patrem and noticed the cool pictures being posted here...very interesting indeed! I like best the piece with abstract of "a mother sitting, taking care of her baby" around the sorsoran area.

Appreciate more sharing of info and to tap more knowledge from fellow collectors. Thanks in advance!

HanaChu69

Alam Shah · 5th June 2007, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HanaChu69

Hi,

I’m a regular guest to warung kopi but somehow this thread has caught my interest. I always have great fascination for patrem and noticed the cool pictures being posted here...

Welcome to the forum, Hana.

Lately our newer members had showered us with many beautiful pieces and opened up interesting topics with many visual delights.

ganjawulung · 5th June 2007, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HanaChu69

... I like best the piece with abstract of "a mother sitting, taking care of her baby" around the sorsoran area...

Hi Hana,
Welcome to the forum. This "maternity" pamor welcomes you too...

Ganjawulung

HanaChu69 · 6th June 2007, 01:50 PM

Greetings everyone,

Alam Shah – Thank you for the warm welcome. I realized that there are quite a handful of familiar collectors here who participated in other keris forums as well. Hmm..that’s the beauty of networking with diversified culture and languages..

I have to agree that the latest topics are getting my attention too especially the one on “keris and spirit”.

Ganjawulung – Thank you for the creative welcome and I like the new term used “maternity” pamor..I wonder what significance it has in your life. Is there any miracle in you getting more children and being productive?

Oh..I’m curious as to why do you need to renew the “greneng”. My surprise to see such action is allowed in Solo but not in Yogya. Are there any specific reasons? My preferences are for older blade and the more jaded the better. Btw, what is your understanding of Majapahit patrem?

Thanks,
HanaChu69

P.S – I’m new to the keris world and apologized for the many questions asked.

22nd May 2007, 04:33 PM	#1
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	P a t r e m -- The Smaller Keris Dear All, Certainly, this is not a scene in Golgotha. I just want so share with you all about the Smaller Keris the Javanese call it as "patrem". So small, that people often call the patrem as "keris for women". The size is about -- in Javanese word: "sekilan". Or the size of spreading fingers, from thumb to the other end of the finger (I miss my English word for my smallest finger)... The patrem's dhapur is usually very simple: straight and no much details (ricikan). Mostly, dhapur "brojol", "tilamupih", "tilamsari". But sometimes "naga" motives too. This time, I will show you a keris which was reshaped (I don't know the exact word of Javanese "dibesut" or "keris besutan" in English) by may favorite Solonese keris-maker, Sukamdi. Almost not changed the size, and certainly not change the ricikan (details) or added something in the blade, except renew the "greneng" (I don't even know the right English word for this, please David). So actually, the form is still Majapahit patrem, but seems very brand new. Sorry for to do that. Because, such action is allowed in Solonese people, but prohibited in the neighboring city, Yogyakarta. Very sorry for that... Ganjawulung

22nd May 2007, 04:59 PM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	P a t r e m I am so sorry, these are the pictures... Attached Images

22nd May 2007, 09:22 PM	#3
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Patrem with Cirebonese Hilt This patrem bears naga motive, but the very simple naga. The hilt is Cirebonese. And the sheath is a small "sandang walikat" style, made of forest-mango (mangga hutan) wood. The blade is still in original form... Attached Images

24th May 2007, 06:21 AM	#12
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	More Smaller Keris Hi All, Here is one more smaller keris. Old Madurese keris and sheath, but I'm sorry the Jawa Demam hilt is not suitable -- although an old old ivory one. Like Brekele in the other thread (Welcome again, Brekele..), I would like to ask you, is there any "raja gundala" (rojo gundolo) in this sor-soran of the blade? Attached Images

24th May 2007, 04:58 PM	#20
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here is the smallest one I have blade is about 9-10" would it be considered a patrem keris? Attached Images

23rd May 2007, 05:26 AM	#5
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Thanks David, I don't even have a Sumatran keris or sheath. Hilts, maybe I have. I am sorry for my "Indonesian" English in this forum (In-glish)...

23rd May 2007, 09:24 AM	#6
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	Patrem keris may not be necessarily for a woman. It could also meant for a young boy (age 7-12 yrs old). Olden days, being a small boy was to play and sometime helps their parent at work, other than schooling. Having the first keris (mostly keris patrem) is their first so-called responsibility, that is to take good care of that keris. But this has another depth meaning. A task so as not to 'play around' with the keris (fighting, create trouble, harm or bullying others). Simply said a father would want his boy to build his character to be a responsible and wise man.

23rd May 2007, 10:52 AM	#8
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Gonjo, You have a lot of nice and good collection. Us

24th May 2007, 02:09 PM	#18
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Thanks David, and Alan, I should try to get the proper hilt to fit this Madurese patrem. And I will gather more information on "women keris" patrem. But what Shahrial told us, is also true although not completely true, that smaller keris is for boys. Small kerises for women, also known in Javanese society. Sometimes, erronously called the smaller kerises or patrem with "cundrik". Cundrik (spelt as "choon-drik") itself is a certain dhapur's name (looks like small "pedang sabet" or kind of little sword). Some small kerises for "sajen" (sacrifice) in the Majapahit era or Mataram, also bears dhapur cundrik. Maybe because of many "sajen" kerises which are usually small, some Javanese people erronously called the small kerises as cundriks. Weapon for women, in Javanese society, is not only in patrem form. There are also kinds of "secret weapon" for women. Usually they wear as a "tusuk konde" (stick for pinning the "gelungan" or rounded women hairs). Some weapon like this, sometimes with pamor too. This weapon, of course in the old days meant for women self-defense. (Today's woman, use special spray to guard themself from other's abuse in the street). In some dancing, or wayang theater, women sometimes armed themselves with kerises. And their kerises, of course, the patrem type. Usuallly they don't put their patrem behind your waist like the men do, but in front of the waist. Usually, the sheaths are "sandang walikat". I will search more information on this matter, Dave... Ganjawulung

24th May 2007, 05:58 PM	#22
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Well Lew, you had a patrem...and you sold it to me, thanks.

24th May 2007, 06:10 PM	#23
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Thank you for explaining about the training of young boys in connection to patrem. My teacher who is Chinese Indonesian "washed" his keris patrem with his father every Friday. It is a strong memory for him and he uses it as an example of how one must be diligent and regularly strive to improve. I don't think he was allowed to walk around with his patrem, but it was part of a lesson in responsibility and how to be an adult. Josh

24th May 2007, 06:21 PM	#24
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Josh, generally i understand "washing" a keris as emersing it in fruit acids in preparation for fresh staining. Is this what you mean. I would think it more likely that on a weekly basis one might "feed" a keris with offerrings, incense and oil. Weekly "washing" seems a bit excessive to me.

24th May 2007, 08:58 PM	#26
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Lew, that's it in my post up above, the one on the left. I think this hilt is a little too large, but short of having one made for it it was the best i could do for now.

3rd June 2007, 06:45 AM	#27
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Hi, I’m a regular guest to warung kopi but somehow this thread has caught my interest. I always have great fascination for patrem and noticed the cool pictures being posted here...very interesting indeed! I like best the piece with abstract of "a mother sitting, taking care of her baby" around the sorsoran area. Appreciate more sharing of info and to tap more knowledge from fellow collectors. Thanks in advance! HanaChu69

6th June 2007, 01:50 PM	#30
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Greetings everyone, Alam Shah – Thank you for the warm welcome. I realized that there are quite a handful of familiar collectors here who participated in other keris forums as well. Hmm..that’s the beauty of networking with diversified culture and languages.. I have to agree that the latest topics are getting my attention too especially the one on “keris and spirit”. Ganjawulung – Thank you for the creative welcome and I like the new term used “maternity” pamor..I wonder what significance it has in your life. Is there any miracle in you getting more children and being productive? Oh..I’m curious as to why do you need to renew the “greneng”. My surprise to see such action is allowed in Solo but not in Yogya. Are there any specific reasons? My preferences are for older blade and the more jaded the better. Btw, what is your understanding of Majapahit patrem? Thanks, HanaChu69 P.S – I’m new to the keris world and apologized for the many questions asked.