keris and spirit

Raden Usman Djogja · 22nd May 2007, 10:00 PM

Firstly, according to Keris and spirit, the discussion is focused on the use of meteorite. Is it a legend or not? Is there any impact to the power of keris? Does the "believe" of meteorite use give advantage or disadvantage for keris? I hope the conclusion is decided by each discussant since the aim of discussion is to share and to broaden our knowledge of keris. I do hope we can postpone for a while about "meteorite". There is still a neglected issue: TAYUH.

Secondly, if talking about spirit of Keris (Tosan Aji), we are familiar with the word "Nayuh/Tayuh/ (please translate into English, dear)". Does any kerislover have idea/experience/story about TAYUH/NAYUH/TAYUHAN? I do hope, from now, we can share and discuss about TAYUH/NAYUH/TAYUHAN.

Lets begin...

Usman

David · 25th May 2007, 04:41 PM

Usman, i appreciate your enthusiasm for discussion on the spiritual aspects of the keris. It is a topic that is indeed very close to my heart. I would suggest that if you want to have this discussion that you just begin yourself and see what follows. If you wait for others to begin you might have to wait for some time.

Tayuh as i understand it is a practice used in Kejawen to determine things through metaphysical means: past or future, find lost items, determine causes and cures for disease, etc. Please correct me if i am wrong.

The keris can and has been used as a tool to facilate this process. While i believe that tayuh can be discussed in a much larger extent not necessarily specific to keris, i would suggest that for the sake of topic and context that try to focus the discussion on tayuh only as it relates to the keris itself...but perhaps that is not possible.

Raden Usman Djogja · 2nd June 2007, 01:18 PM

David,

yes, tayuh covers many aspects in javanese life. to narrowing the discussion, perhaps, it is better as you mention only as it relates to the keris itself.

usually, in Djogja, I saw people held keris and closed their eyes. Soon after that, they metioned about something related to the origin and the use of keris.

several times, I tested person who was believed having sixth sense. It did not matter whether I believed or not at that time about their abilities. My concern was to test the use of keris to person who did not learn lots about keris.

Then, I brought a keris, e.g period tuban, shape tilam upih, ornamen raja abala raja / top point of mountains. Amazing me, some people could explain the use of keris and "time-made" as Bambang Harsrinuksmo wrote in his ensiklopedia. Then, it raised a question why they could explain the use of keris... even they did not know the name of its pamor. there must be another way to understand keris. Is it NAYUH?

What did I still not believe them, whenever they metioned about the name of ghost lived inside, e.g. kiai tunggul wulung. It was only his imagination becuase, I hoped, if it's true, the name should be either Kiai Magelhaens or Nyai Wilhelmina. Just kidding my dear.

Usman

Lei Shen Dao · 4th June 2007, 12:50 AM

Considering the pamor related powers, I've heard form some people that a specific pamor doesn't allways indicate only one "power".
For example a was wutah keris is best known for his "good luck" quallities to the owner but it could be for "pengayoman" (protection and saccor) also.

There are some cases that I have encounter about keris that were made for more than one "purpose" for their owners (and I am not speaking for keris with two pamors etc, in this case), I know of an old maduranese blade

(very strong and for fighting) made for a warrior with the purpose of "coming back safe from the battle" and it has pamor was wutah. This keris is not for general protection or for protecting the family of the warrior, but it was strictly for the warrior in battle. Maduranese people were mostly poor those days, so a was wutah pamor was ideal for someone to have a good luck in general. But the empu could "issue" another power in the blade not so obvious for other people than the owner himself.

Have you ever heard something similar?

Raden Usman Djogja · 4th June 2007, 01:57 AM

Yes, I heard similiar. Even, a talisman ever said that his keris could use for everything (it sounds generalist). However, imho, one tool uses effectively to solve one problem. But, if it can solve another problem,imho, it is a bonus. For instance, the main function of car is for transportation. A ferrari can function both for transportation and for prestige... or for other purposes.

Raden Usman Djogja · 4th June 2007, 02:10 AM

revision:

not a talisman but a person who "make" talisman. What is he called in English? (the native, please)

HanaChu69 · 7th June 2007, 11:11 AM

Hi Usman & fellow keris collectors

I enjoyed reading all the stories and sharing session. I have my fair share of weird happenings but this recent incident has got me thinking if there’s any relation to one of my keris. Sometime early this year, my mom mentioned that she saw the back of an old man wearing all white “jubah” (gown) loitering around my hall corridor during midnight. She was on the verge of going to the ladies but changed her mind. I told her that it was nothing and was just fragment of her imagination.

A week later, I was on my way to work and surprisingly saw the old man earlier mentioned by my mom. I was shocked because he smelt so strongly of my keris oil which I bought from Adni (MAG). Is it a co-incidence or what? The best part was he was wearing black sunglasses. He was small built about 1.5m in height and has white hair wearing all white “jubah” (gown). He appeared a while and later on vanished among the crowd. The next day, I smelt my keris oil again lingering for a few minutes before it vanished through the thin air.

From that day onwards, I began to hide pictures of my two patrems from Kampungnet viewers. I’m not sure of the significance. Is he angry with me for sharing the pictures? I’m trying to communicate and asked for the reason through prayers definitely. Hmm…don’t get the wrong idea. I’m not asking for miracles or lottery numbers for I’m not a gambler but in creating a rapport. I believe that he lives in his world and I live in mine. I strongly believe that you must not be a slave to the spirit but mutual respect for each other if we were to co-exist in this world.

Truthfully,
HanaChu69

22nd May 2007, 10:00 PM	#1
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	NAYUH - TAYUH Firstly, according to Keris and spirit, the discussion is focused on the use of meteorite. Is it a legend or not? Is there any impact to the power of keris? Does the "believe" of meteorite use give advantage or disadvantage for keris? I hope the conclusion is decided by each discussant since the aim of discussion is to share and to broaden our knowledge of keris. I do hope we can postpone for a while about "meteorite". There is still a neglected issue: TAYUH. Secondly, if talking about spirit of Keris (Tosan Aji), we are familiar with the word "Nayuh/Tayuh/ (please translate into English, dear)". Does any kerislover have idea/experience/story about TAYUH/NAYUH/TAYUHAN? I do hope, from now, we can share and discuss about TAYUH/NAYUH/TAYUHAN. Lets begin... Usman

7th June 2007, 11:11 AM	#7
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Hi Usman & fellow keris collectors I enjoyed reading all the stories and sharing session. I have my fair share of weird happenings but this recent incident has got me thinking if there’s any relation to one of my keris. Sometime early this year, my mom mentioned that she saw the back of an old man wearing all white “jubah” (gown) loitering around my hall corridor during midnight. She was on the verge of going to the ladies but changed her mind. I told her that it was nothing and was just fragment of her imagination. A week later, I was on my way to work and surprisingly saw the old man earlier mentioned by my mom. I was shocked because he smelt so strongly of my keris oil which I bought from Adni (MAG). Is it a co-incidence or what? The best part was he was wearing black sunglasses. He was small built about 1.5m in height and has white hair wearing all white “jubah” (gown). He appeared a while and later on vanished among the crowd. The next day, I smelt my keris oil again lingering for a few minutes before it vanished through the thin air. From that day onwards, I began to hide pictures of my two patrems from Kampungnet viewers. I’m not sure of the significance. Is he angry with me for sharing the pictures? I’m trying to communicate and asked for the reason through prayers definitely. Hmm…don’t get the wrong idea. I’m not asking for miracles or lottery numbers for I’m not a gambler but in creating a rapport. I believe that he lives in his world and I live in mine. I strongly believe that you must not be a slave to the spirit but mutual respect for each other if we were to co-exist in this world. Truthfully, HanaChu69

25th May 2007, 04:41 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Usman, i appreciate your enthusiasm for discussion on the spiritual aspects of the keris. It is a topic that is indeed very close to my heart. I would suggest that if you want to have this discussion that you just begin yourself and see what follows. If you wait for others to begin you might have to wait for some time. Tayuh as i understand it is a practice used in Kejawen to determine things through metaphysical means: past or future, find lost items, determine causes and cures for disease, etc. Please correct me if i am wrong. The keris can and has been used as a tool to facilate this process. While i believe that tayuh can be discussed in a much larger extent not necessarily specific to keris, i would suggest that for the sake of topic and context that try to focus the discussion on tayuh only as it relates to the keris itself...but perhaps that is not possible.

2nd June 2007, 01:18 PM	#3
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	David, yes, tayuh covers many aspects in javanese life. to narrowing the discussion, perhaps, it is better as you mention only as it relates to the keris itself. usually, in Djogja, I saw people held keris and closed their eyes. Soon after that, they metioned about something related to the origin and the use of keris. several times, I tested person who was believed having sixth sense. It did not matter whether I believed or not at that time about their abilities. My concern was to test the use of keris to person who did not learn lots about keris. Then, I brought a keris, e.g period tuban, shape tilam upih, ornamen raja abala raja / top point of mountains. Amazing me, some people could explain the use of keris and "time-made" as Bambang Harsrinuksmo wrote in his ensiklopedia. Then, it raised a question why they could explain the use of keris... even they did not know the name of its pamor. there must be another way to understand keris. Is it NAYUH? What did I still not believe them, whenever they metioned about the name of ghost lived inside, e.g. kiai tunggul wulung. It was only his imagination becuase, I hoped, if it's true, the name should be either Kiai Magelhaens or Nyai Wilhelmina. Just kidding my dear. Usman

4th June 2007, 12:50 AM	#4
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Considering the pamor related powers, I've heard form some people that a specific pamor doesn't allways indicate only one "power". For example a was wutah keris is best known for his "good luck" quallities to the owner but it could be for "pengayoman" (protection and saccor) also. There are some cases that I have encounter about keris that were made for more than one "purpose" for their owners (and I am not speaking for keris with two pamors etc, in this case), I know of an old maduranese blade (very strong and for fighting) made for a warrior with the purpose of "coming back safe from the battle" and it has pamor was wutah. This keris is not for general protection or for protecting the family of the warrior, but it was strictly for the warrior in battle. Maduranese people were mostly poor those days, so a was wutah pamor was ideal for someone to have a good luck in general. But the empu could "issue" another power in the blade not so obvious for other people than the owner himself. Have you ever heard something similar?

4th June 2007, 01:57 AM	#5
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Yes, I heard similiar. Even, a talisman ever said that his keris could use for everything (it sounds generalist). However, imho, one tool uses effectively to solve one problem. But, if it can solve another problem,imho, it is a bonus. For instance, the main function of car is for transportation. A ferrari can function both for transportation and for prestige... or for other purposes.

4th June 2007, 02:10 AM	#6
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	revision: not a talisman but a person who "make" talisman. What is he called in English? (the native, please)