A tulwar from Kishanghar

Jeff D · 18th May 2007, 05:13 AM

Hi Jens,

Thanks for posting this topic. I had a Sikh friend read the script and he said the letters read (phonetically) "ra - khee - Ka", good luck finding out what that means

. Of course it may read completely different in Rajasthan.

All the best
Jeff

Jens Nordlunde · 18th May 2007, 01:24 PM

Hi Jeff,

If a collector thinks it is difficult to find a nice tulwar, to clean it and to etch it, it is nothing compared to the effort it takes to find someone who can/will translate the abbreviated letters

.

Is the armoury mark the only decoration on the blade, and is the decoration on the hilt in relief or flat?

All the best

Jens

Jeff D · 19th May 2007, 07:04 PM

Hi Jens,

I know what you mean about getting translations, don't get me started!

.

The hilt has raised images, I think it is an iron hilt with a silver wash. The strange thing is the patina is a darkish blue rather than black?

The blade has one other worn mark, I will post it below.

All the Best
Jeff

Jeff D · 19th May 2007, 07:10 PM

Now that I look at the enlarged picture it looks like koftghari on an iron hilt. I never noticed that before?

Jeff

Andrew · 19th May 2007, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff D

The hilt has raised images, I think it is an iron hilt with a silver wash. The strange thing is the patina is a darkish blue rather than black?

Hi Jeff. I've got a dha (what else?

) I picked up from Artzi a few years ago with silver fittings that have a rich blue, lusterous patina. I imagine this has something to do with the alloy? Perhaps Jose, or one of the metalurgists here can edify this for us.

It looks black here, but in the hand, it's clearly dark blue.

Tim Simmons · 19th May 2007, 07:49 PM

I am not a plater but the plater I use for replating peoples tableware tells me that the metal of the item to be plated will effect the colour. So when gold plating some objects a layer of copper is put on first to help the yellow gold. Silver straight on to steel will be effected, that may explain why even clean of oxidisation the silver has a blue hue. As to Andrews dha I think it is probably the quality of the silver.

Marc · 19th May 2007, 07:55 PM

There's many techniques to give a blue (or other) colour to a polished steel surface (you may be familiar with the term "bluing"). The basis of all of them is the formation of a (usually thin) layer of specific corrosion products that feature the colour of choice. This, of course, is different than painting, enameling, lacquering or other "covering" techniques, in that the idea is making the metal react chemically and produce a specific spices of compound with the right coloration. Depending on their nature, many of these layers have also some more or less effective protective properties in front of oxidation, combining aesthetics with functionality.

Battara · 19th May 2007, 09:08 PM

My ears were burning until I got onto this thread...

Sterling or purer will oxidize a bluish black and then turn into a dark black as more oxidation accrues.

Jens Nordlunde · 19th May 2007, 09:32 PM

Hi Jeff,

Are you sure it is koftgari? You have the hilt of course, but it does not look like that to me – it looks as if it is in relief, and if that is so, it can’t be koftgari.

The bluish colour is something else, in one of my books is mentioned that they made the metal bluish or brownish – I have forgotten how they did it, but I am sure one or two of the members know how to do it.

Do you think they belong together or that they were brought together? The blade could be a lot older than the hilt – what do you think?

Jens

18th May 2007, 01:24 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Jeff, If a collector thinks it is difficult to find a nice tulwar, to clean it and to etch it, it is nothing compared to the effort it takes to find someone who can/will translate the abbreviated letters. Is the armoury mark the only decoration on the blade, and is the decoration on the hilt in relief or flat? All the best Jens

19th May 2007, 07:04 PM	#3
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi Jens, I know what you mean about getting translations, don't get me started! . The hilt has raised images, I think it is an iron hilt with a silver wash. The strange thing is the patina is a darkish blue rather than black? The blade has one other worn mark, I will post it below. All the Best Jeff Attached Images

18th May 2007, 05:13 AM	#1
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi Jens, Thanks for posting this topic. I had a Sikh friend read the script and he said the letters read (phonetically) "ra - khee - Ka", good luck finding out what that means . Of course it may read completely different in Rajasthan. All the best Jeff

19th May 2007, 07:10 PM	#4
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Now that I look at the enlarged picture it looks like koftghari on an iron hilt. I never noticed that before? Jeff

19th May 2007, 07:49 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	I am not a plater but the plater I use for replating peoples tableware tells me that the metal of the item to be plated will effect the colour. So when gold plating some objects a layer of copper is put on first to help the yellow gold. Silver straight on to steel will be effected, that may explain why even clean of oxidisation the silver has a blue hue. As to Andrews dha I think it is probably the quality of the silver.

19th May 2007, 07:55 PM	#7
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	There's many techniques to give a blue (or other) colour to a polished steel surface (you may be familiar with the term "bluing"). The basis of all of them is the formation of a (usually thin) layer of specific corrosion products that feature the colour of choice. This, of course, is different than painting, enameling, lacquering or other "covering" techniques, in that the idea is making the metal react chemically and produce a specific spices of compound with the right coloration. Depending on their nature, many of these layers have also some more or less effective protective properties in front of oxidation, combining aesthetics with functionality.

19th May 2007, 09:08 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	My ears were burning until I got onto this thread... Sterling or purer will oxidize a bluish black and then turn into a dark black as more oxidation accrues.

19th May 2007, 09:32 PM	#9
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Jeff, Are you sure it is koftgari? You have the hilt of course, but it does not look like that to me – it looks as if it is in relief, and if that is so, it can’t be koftgari. The bluish colour is something else, in one of my books is mentioned that they made the metal bluish or brownish – I have forgotten how they did it, but I am sure one or two of the members know how to do it. Do you think they belong together or that they were brought together? The blade could be a lot older than the hilt – what do you think? Jens