Balinese kris from Polish Museum

nechesh · 27th February 2005, 09:44 PM

Hi Kai Wee. I didn't post Harsrinuksmo's quote in support of his comment on the implying a lack of beauty in gongo iras.I, as well, find your example to be quite attractive and i own one that i also find beautiful. I also don't mean to suggest that "Ensiklopedi Keris" is the definitive text on keris. My only point here is that i would have thought that if anybody were to mention a mystical or talismanic purpose specific to gonjo iras it would be Harsrinuksmo due to the nature of his approach to the keris.
I am aware or the lingam/yoni symbolism of the pesi and gonjo that is certainly a part of the "modern" mystical philosophy of the keris, though i wonder when this concept was actually introduced. I don't think there is much to support that this was the original purpose for the seperate gonjo. I find you theory about female pandai interesting and wonder if anyone else has similar information.

wolviex · 17th March 2005, 10:16 PM

Dear Friends!

I would like to thank once more for your commitment in my thread, your thoughts are very helpful and important for me.

At the end I would like to present to you the same keris with pendok on the proper side, with three (not one) rivets, and with the complete material under the pendok.

Thank you once more, of course feel free to discuss new pics

Best regards to you!

capt.smash · 17th March 2005, 10:28 PM

WOW that looks so much better ....drooool....drooool nice work

wolviex · 17th March 2005, 10:37 PM

And I forgot - conservation was made not by me, but our museal specialists - best wishes for them !

Rick · 18th March 2005, 12:08 AM

Three cheers for you Wolviex , without your instigation it may never have happened .

nechesh · 18th March 2005, 12:36 AM

WOW!!! Nice restoration. I am still curious if you ever got a more definitive I.D. on the stones. They still look far too brilliant to be rock crystal to me. Also wonder if you were ever able to determine exactly where this piece was collected from? Give your specialists a pat on the back form us, eh.

BluErf · 18th March 2005, 01:29 PM

Hi Wolviex,

I feel happy for the keris. Could you shake the hands of the museum specialists for me? Tell them they did great.

wolviex · 19th March 2005, 11:16 AM

Thank you for this kind words, I appreciate it. I'm happy you like it

Regards

DAHenkel · 19th March 2005, 12:53 PM

Not to re-hash what we've already gone over before but I am still not at all convinced that this is a Madurese keris. There are more than a few examples that are very similar to this piece and - with the notable exception of the highly unreliable Hasrinuksmo they are attributed to Bali.

I'm not denying that the topengan may have been used in Madura though I would contend that by at least the 19th century that had ceased. We have in our museum's collection an excavated example dated to about the 15th century from East Java. I know the blade does not look like a typical Balinese keris but then again I've seen more than a few keris like that from Bali. I suspect that in most cases these are either very early examples, ie. 16th or 17th c. or perhaps even later imports or trade blades.

I'd really love to hear what Empu Kumis has to say about this piece because among us he has perhaps the most keris experience on Bali. However, in general, can anyone show me a similar piece that is accurately and incontrovertibly provenanced to Madura?

Henk · 19th March 2005, 01:04 PM

The restoration is well done. The ones who performed it did a good job. But the credits are also to you Wolviex. You brought the attention of them to this piece.

17th March 2005, 10:16 PM	#2
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	After conservation Dear Friends! I would like to thank once more for your commitment in my thread, your thoughts are very helpful and important for me. At the end I would like to present to you the same keris with pendok on the proper side, with three (not one) rivets, and with the complete material under the pendok. Thank you once more, of course feel free to discuss new pics Best regards to you! Attached Images

18th March 2005, 12:08 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Most Excellent Three cheers for you Wolviex , without your instigation it may never have happened .

27th February 2005, 09:44 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Kai Wee. I didn't post Harsrinuksmo's quote in support of his comment on the implying a lack of beauty in gongo iras.I, as well, find your example to be quite attractive and i own one that i also find beautiful. I also don't mean to suggest that "Ensiklopedi Keris" is the definitive text on keris. My only point here is that i would have thought that if anybody were to mention a mystical or talismanic purpose specific to gonjo iras it would be Harsrinuksmo due to the nature of his approach to the keris. I am aware or the lingam/yoni symbolism of the pesi and gonjo that is certainly a part of the "modern" mystical philosophy of the keris, though i wonder when this concept was actually introduced. I don't think there is much to support that this was the original purpose for the seperate gonjo. I find you theory about female pandai interesting and wonder if anyone else has similar information.

17th March 2005, 10:28 PM	#3
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	WOW that looks so much better ....drooool....drooool nice work

17th March 2005, 10:37 PM	#4
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	And I forgot - conservation was made not by me, but our museal specialists - best wishes for them !

18th March 2005, 12:36 AM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	WOW!!! Nice restoration. I am still curious if you ever got a more definitive I.D. on the stones. They still look far too brilliant to be rock crystal to me. Also wonder if you were ever able to determine exactly where this piece was collected from? Give your specialists a pat on the back form us, eh.

18th March 2005, 01:29 PM	#7
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Wolviex, I feel happy for the keris. Could you shake the hands of the museum specialists for me? Tell them they did great.

19th March 2005, 11:16 AM	#8
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Thank you for this kind words, I appreciate it. I'm happy you like it Regards

19th March 2005, 12:53 PM	#9
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Not to re-hash what we've already gone over before but I am still not at all convinced that this is a Madurese keris. There are more than a few examples that are very similar to this piece and - with the notable exception of the highly unreliable Hasrinuksmo they are attributed to Bali. I'm not denying that the topengan may have been used in Madura though I would contend that by at least the 19th century that had ceased. We have in our museum's collection an excavated example dated to about the 15th century from East Java. I know the blade does not look like a typical Balinese keris but then again I've seen more than a few keris like that from Bali. I suspect that in most cases these are either very early examples, ie. 16th or 17th c. or perhaps even later imports or trade blades. I'd really love to hear what Empu Kumis has to say about this piece because among us he has perhaps the most keris experience on Bali. However, in general, can anyone show me a similar piece that is accurately and incontrovertibly provenanced to Madura?

19th March 2005, 01:04 PM	#10
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	The restoration is well done. The ones who performed it did a good job. But the credits are also to you Wolviex. You brought the attention of them to this piece.