A tulwar from Kishanghar

ALEX · 2nd May 2007, 03:49 PM

Nice indeed. Is it damascus blade, or have you tried to test-etch it?

Also, I just finished restoring two tulwars. Both have pattern-weld blades. I'll post the pictures soon.

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd May 2007, 04:21 PM

No, I have not tried to etch it yet, but I will try it, when I feel I have the time – being on pension can be rather time consuming

.

It will be nice to see your tulwars

.

Here is what most Kishangarh armoury marks look like. I really wonder why they made the marks so sloppy. It would have been easier/faster to remove the wax where the letters/numbers were to be and start etching, but they removed the wax around the letters/numbers, and in a rather careless way at that, unless the army just had come home with 25.000 ‘new’ swords and daggers to be marked, before they entered the armoury. Even a stamp would have been a lot faster and easier – although the number would fail – so why etching?

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd May 2007, 05:07 PM

Sorry - here is the mark.

ward · 2nd May 2007, 09:41 PM

why carve it of wax use a wax pencil or crayon write out what you want. mix the acid with inate product to make a slurry or put it straight on and use the wax pencil to put a quick dam around it. quick and dirty. I suspect a slurry would be the easiest. there is a product on the market called peel away main ingediant as I remember is methal chloride. It comes in a putty and would do the job. Sure there was something similar in the areas

Jens Nordlunde · 3rd May 2007, 09:20 AM

Ward,

Your suggestion is, no doubt, good if you want to make the armoury marks to day – but these marks were made a couple of hundred years ago.

ward · 3rd May 2007, 12:43 PM

a wax pencil is just poured wax and was available easily in this period also a acid slurry solution I beleive was easily possible. I will check my references when i get time

B.I · 3rd May 2007, 02:12 PM

Wonderful piece Jens!
....and congratulations to the photographer!!

In the image I have of the armoury, there is a table with a series of hilts, seen from the top (pommel). These hilts are of the same style as yours, and am sure your sword was either in the photo (hard to see) or maybe just outside the shot.

ALEX · 8th May 2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

No, I have not tried to etch it yet, but I will try it, when I feel I have the time – being on pension can be rather time consuming

.

It will be nice to see your tulwars

.

Here are the pictures. The top one is very thick with heavy, chiseled on both sides, blade. Note the eyelashes mark in the carved part of the blade.
The second is thin, light and very well balanced. Both exhibit pattern weld Damascus (after restoration. The blade of the second tulwar was in very bad condition, and seems quite old). I also notice a slightly razed yelmen on both blades.
I'd appreciate any observations/comments on these tulwars.

Jens Nordlunde · 9th May 2007, 12:47 PM

Alex

Nice pair of tulwars you have, with nice Indian blades as well.

Have you had the text on the blade translated? What does the top of the disc look like? Where are the eye lashes?

ALEX · 13th May 2007, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Alex

Nice pair of tulwars you have, with nice Indian blades as well.

Have you had the text on the blade translated? What does the top of the disc look like? Where are the eye lashes?

Thank you Jens,
Please look at the last image above... closely. The eyelashes stamp is right in the middle of the blade, see it?
Also, below are closeups of the pommels and the text. I tried to translate it, but apparently it is very difficult verse, even my Arabic-speaking friend is struggling to translate it.

Jens Nordlunde · 13th May 2007, 10:10 AM

Hi Alex,

I found these two pictures on my computer, they are from a book called Damascening on Steel or Iron, as practised in India. The flowers on top of the disc looks very much like yours. I remember having read, that all the weapons shown in the book belonged to Maharaja Madho Singh of Jaipur. One could say it is likely that the swords in the armoury came from the same area, but it is no guarantee, as many weapons changed armoury due to the many wars, - often more than once, and there was also a considerable trade.

ALEX · 13th May 2007, 02:01 PM

Thanks for a nice reference Jens.
I think the example you showed is superior to what I have (especially the top picture). I recently saw a similar hilt, but made using different, non-koftgari, technique. The gold appears to be applied like a paste, or thick ink, without any visible cross-stiching of the metal, in very intricate small floral pattern. I have similar hilt in silver (but mine is again inferior to that:-)

2nd May 2007, 04:21 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	No, I have not tried to etch it yet, but I will try it, when I feel I have the time – being on pension can be rather time consuming. It will be nice to see your tulwars. Here is what most Kishangarh armoury marks look like. I really wonder why they made the marks so sloppy. It would have been easier/faster to remove the wax where the letters/numbers were to be and start etching, but they removed the wax around the letters/numbers, and in a rather careless way at that, unless the army just had come home with 25.000 ‘new’ swords and daggers to be marked, before they entered the armoury. Even a stamp would have been a lot faster and easier – although the number would fail – so why etching? Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 2nd May 2007 at 04:47 PM.

2nd May 2007, 05:07 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Sorry - here is the mark. Attached Images

13th May 2007, 10:10 AM	#11
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Alex, I found these two pictures on my computer, they are from a book called Damascening on Steel or Iron, as practised in India. The flowers on top of the disc looks very much like yours. I remember having read, that all the weapons shown in the book belonged to Maharaja Madho Singh of Jaipur. One could say it is likely that the swords in the armoury came from the same area, but it is no guarantee, as many weapons changed armoury due to the many wars, - often more than once, and there was also a considerable trade. Attached Images Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 13th May 2007 at 03:01 PM.

2nd May 2007, 03:49 PM	#1
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Nice indeed. Is it damascus blade, or have you tried to test-etch it? Also, I just finished restoring two tulwars. Both have pattern-weld blades. I'll post the pictures soon.

2nd May 2007, 09:41 PM	#4
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	why carve it of wax use a wax pencil or crayon write out what you want. mix the acid with inate product to make a slurry or put it straight on and use the wax pencil to put a quick dam around it. quick and dirty. I suspect a slurry would be the easiest. there is a product on the market called peel away main ingediant as I remember is methal chloride. It comes in a putty and would do the job. Sure there was something similar in the areas

3rd May 2007, 09:20 AM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ward, Your suggestion is, no doubt, good if you want to make the armoury marks to day – but these marks were made a couple of hundred years ago.

3rd May 2007, 12:43 PM	#6
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	a wax pencil is just poured wax and was available easily in this period also a acid slurry solution I beleive was easily possible. I will check my references when i get time

3rd May 2007, 02:12 PM	#7
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	Wonderful piece Jens! ....and congratulations to the photographer!! In the image I have of the armoury, there is a table with a series of hilts, seen from the top (pommel). These hilts are of the same style as yours, and am sure your sword was either in the photo (hard to see) or maybe just outside the shot.

9th May 2007, 12:47 PM	#9
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Alex Nice pair of tulwars you have, with nice Indian blades as well. Have you had the text on the blade translated? What does the top of the disc look like? Where are the eye lashes?

13th May 2007, 02:01 PM	#12
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Thanks for a nice reference Jens. I think the example you showed is superior to what I have (especially the top picture). I recently saw a similar hilt, but made using different, non-koftgari, technique. The gold appears to be applied like a paste, or thick ink, without any visible cross-stiching of the metal, in very intricate small floral pattern. I have similar hilt in silver (but mine is again inferior to that:-)