A wootz knife considerations

ALEX · 2nd May 2007, 10:35 AM

Enjoyed a recent dialoque about modern knifemaking and sharp comments made by Ariel, Lew and others, and would like to share my latest "wootz knife" story. The point is, once again, to illustrate and consider what a fine wootz knife should look and feel like. So, lets consider some facts:
1. The workmanship: As was said many times before - there is nothing like an old work. There is something magical to an old wootz, opposite to artificial of a modern one (This is just my opinion. And I admire the talents of Mr.Pendray!). Indeed, how one could produce such a pattern without infrared thermomethers and air hammers is amazing.
2. The material: The cover is silver, and despite a simple floral design - no one can reproduce the same quality anymore (or at least no one I know of).
3. The process: A joy of restoration consisted of replacing a damaged leather, adding scabbard tip and a center silver strip. Also, the wootz pattern was barely visible, so I re-polished the blade and etched it. Imagine the feeling!?
4. The History: We can argue of origin and age based on a style, material, etc (By the way, I think the blade is Persian. Do the fittings look Turkish or Kurdish?)
5. The price: less than 3% of a recently sold Al Pendray marvel.
And even for the same price, I'd prefer the old one. In my opinion, the "History baggage" alone outweighs the rest.

Ferguson · 2nd May 2007, 11:43 AM

That is absolutely stunning. Beautiful!

Steve

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd May 2007, 03:32 PM

A very nice blade and scabbard fittings, I especially like the flowers. Yes I also prefer an old weapon to a new one.

katana · 2nd May 2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

A very nice blade and scabbard fittings, I especially like the flowers. Yes I also prefer an old weapon to a new one.

"DITTO"

ariel · 2nd May 2007, 10:13 PM

Beautiful khandjar! I think it is Kurdish.
And it is old and real....

Battara · 3rd May 2007, 02:33 AM

Nice work! Yes I too think it is Kurdish.

ariel · 3rd May 2007, 04:55 AM

An unrelated comment: Alex mentioned that he thought the blade was Persian, but the rest was Turkish or Kurdish.
Why do we always attribute great looking wootz blades to Persia? I am not even talking about the elephant in the room: India.

I find it unimaginable that there were no wootz masters in Kurdistan, Afghanistan, Turkey etc. Miller in his book of Hermitage collection shows multiple superb wootz Caucasian blades. There are documented accounts of wootz making in Bukhara. Medieval authors considered Yemeni wootz blades superior to Persian. I have a Balkan Yataghan and an Afghani Khyber/Karud with wootz blades. Avner Yarom showed me several Ottoman kilijes with wootz blades.
Did the Persians have the monopoly of knowledge? Were they supplying characteristically "national" blades to the neighbours? I find it impossible to believe!

Battara · 4th May 2007, 08:26 PM

This type of wootz I associate with Persia which is known for strong contrast. Turkish wootz is lighter in contrast and does not pop out. I have both types of wootz.

Jens Nordlunde · 4th May 2007, 10:45 PM

Well, Persian and Persian. That is a question on, where you draw the borders, depending on when and where. The borders in the early times were floating a lot, and I do think the wootz of the dagger is very much north.

ALEX · 21st June 2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

... Why do we always attribute great looking wootz blades to Persia?

Ariel, this is a very good question. I quess it is based on a conceptual assumption of the fact that statistically there are more higher quality wootz blades from Persia than let's say from India or Turkey, nothing more.
As for the original subject of this Post, recently I came across these two daggers, and would like to share the pictures of what I consider to be nice knife/dagger design and execution.

2nd May 2007, 10:35 AM	#1
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	A wootz knife considerations Enjoyed a recent dialoque about modern knifemaking and sharp comments made by Ariel, Lew and others, and would like to share my latest "wootz knife" story. The point is, once again, to illustrate and consider what a fine wootz knife should look and feel like. So, lets consider some facts: 1. The workmanship: As was said many times before - there is nothing like an old work. There is something magical to an old wootz, opposite to artificial of a modern one (This is just my opinion. And I admire the talents of Mr.Pendray!). Indeed, how one could produce such a pattern without infrared thermomethers and air hammers is amazing. 2. The material: The cover is silver, and despite a simple floral design - no one can reproduce the same quality anymore (or at least no one I know of). 3. The process: A joy of restoration consisted of replacing a damaged leather, adding scabbard tip and a center silver strip. Also, the wootz pattern was barely visible, so I re-polished the blade and etched it. Imagine the feeling!? 4. The History: We can argue of origin and age based on a style, material, etc (By the way, I think the blade is Persian. Do the fittings look Turkish or Kurdish?) 5. The price: less than 3% of a recently sold Al Pendray marvel. And even for the same price, I'd prefer the old one. In my opinion, the "History baggage" alone outweighs the rest. Attached Images

2nd May 2007, 11:43 AM	#2
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	That is absolutely stunning. Beautiful! Steve

2nd May 2007, 03:32 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	A very nice blade and scabbard fittings, I especially like the flowers. Yes I also prefer an old weapon to a new one.

2nd May 2007, 10:13 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Beautiful khandjar! I think it is Kurdish. And it is old and real....

3rd May 2007, 02:33 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Nice work! Yes I too think it is Kurdish.

3rd May 2007, 04:55 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	An unrelated comment: Alex mentioned that he thought the blade was Persian, but the rest was Turkish or Kurdish. Why do we always attribute great looking wootz blades to Persia? I am not even talking about the elephant in the room: India. I find it unimaginable that there were no wootz masters in Kurdistan, Afghanistan, Turkey etc. Miller in his book of Hermitage collection shows multiple superb wootz Caucasian blades. There are documented accounts of wootz making in Bukhara. Medieval authors considered Yemeni wootz blades superior to Persian. I have a Balkan Yataghan and an Afghani Khyber/Karud with wootz blades. Avner Yarom showed me several Ottoman kilijes with wootz blades. Did the Persians have the monopoly of knowledge? Were they supplying characteristically "national" blades to the neighbours? I find it impossible to believe!

4th May 2007, 08:26 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	This type of wootz I associate with Persia which is known for strong contrast. Turkish wootz is lighter in contrast and does not pop out. I have both types of wootz.

4th May 2007, 10:45 PM	#9
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Well, Persian and Persian. That is a question on, where you draw the borders, depending on when and where. The borders in the early times were floating a lot, and I do think the wootz of the dagger is very much north.