OLD OR JUNK?

brekele · 23rd April 2007, 05:46 PM

It's oke Dave, this time my English is a bit chaos!
No more little thing else

But keris?
Baaaang!!! here they are!!!!!
Clean your self!!!, pick up only! and NO PAYPAL,Dave.

Address?
Somewhere cross beautiful small villages in LOMBOK.
PUASS!! PUASS!!

David · 24th April 2007, 04:22 AM

Nice collection. Are these all yours or do they belong to your dealer friend?

brekele · 24th April 2007, 05:52 PM

Hi Dave, some of them are flying already to their new owners.
Some of them as I said, somewhere cross beautifull small villages in LOMBOK.

brekele · 4th May 2007, 08:44 AM

Hi Dave, the Keris Karno Tinanding is already came yesterday.
I looked again and again and again.......

Dave, according of authentic kembang kacang of this keris, then this keris is included "keris bener".
Kembang kacang on back side (wadidhang -x-) is thick/normal.
So, if this keris was already added/modified, then kembang kacang on back side became thin (thiner), and is hard/almost impossible because how to bend/warp (melengkungkan) the kembang kacang by the time iron is hot.
Dave, kembang kacang is resulted (dihasilkan) from process of splitting-up iron/blade and (dipuntir = English?)
Again, So....if kembang kacang is already thin, then is almost impossible/hard because easy get broken.

Dave, sorry....I tried my best to explain it in your languages

Dave, the blade is ASLIES but the pamor is not my taste

Rick · 4th May 2007, 08:00 PM

Why did the Ganja not take the stain in the same way the rest of the blade did ?
Possibly it is not made from the same forging ?

brekele · 5th May 2007, 06:33 AM

Yes yes, you right Rick, It is possible of course and also I though same as your when first time I saw it.
Rick, many time I saw this kind of blades in Lombok THAT the blade and gonjo is not same colour and even not same material of iron and here one of them (Pls see pic carrefully).
And now come up 2 opinions of me.
1. It is possible that the gonjo is being added later on...(But not for keris
trading for now,please). We saw together when blade stil dirty.

2. It could b A TREND for keris at that time in LOMBOK that blade and gonjo is
not in same colour/material just to make a little diffrent than others.
(Rick, just my opinion).

I think, second reason is more I believed now.

hmmm.... I wonder what Alan's opinion, Rick. The man knew the field.
Rick, let me try to call him from his meditation's cave. He might want to come up. Ooops! I hope, I don't disturb him, otherwise bad dream come true.

Hi Alan, How are you today?

A. G. Maisey · 6th May 2007, 12:01 AM

Brekele, I think you may be confusing me with somebody else.

I do not sit meditating in a cave, and your reference in the other thread which you have running at the moment, to a westerner conversing with Lombok dealers at some time in the past was most certainly not a reference to me.

Yes, I have used meditation as a tool for virtually my entire life, at least for as far back as I can remember, but I do not isolate myself to meditate.

I thank you for your compliment that I know the field of keris, however, my knowledge of keris in general is very slight. I have some small and very limited understanding of certain aspects of the keris, but these aspects are almost never touched upon in discussion in this, or any other forum, or which I am aware. The comments that I usually make in this forum are simply the repetition of either published information, or general knowledge within the Javanese keris community. Definitely nothing special, nor necessarily a reflection of my personal views..

Regarding the difference in the material used in gonjos to that used in blades.

I have no opinion on this.

However, generally accepted belief in Jawa is that there are a number of possible reasons:-

in an old keris, it could be to replace a lost or damaged gonjo, or it could be to replace a gonjo used in the manufacture of a keris intended as the "son" of the original keris; a gonjo without pamor could also have been used to conceal the pamor used in the blade, as a measure of protection for the owner.

In a recently made keris it could be to give the impression that the keris is older than it may appear to be.

In both old and recent keris it could be because the maker ran short of the same material as used in the blade, or forgot to cut off sufficient for the gonjo from the forging before welding in the core.

A number of possible reasons, and no way of knowing exactly why the gonjo material may differ from the blade material in any specific blade.

cahaya · 8th May 2007, 11:10 AM

hi Mr. Brekele

can we look a ditail keris, a number 4 from the left (from your collection) ? pic No.1

thnks

23rd April 2007, 05:46 PM	#1
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	It's oke Dave, this time my English is a bit chaos! No more little thing else But keris? Baaaang!!! here they are!!!!! Clean your self!!!, pick up only! and NO PAYPAL,Dave. Address? Somewhere cross beautiful small villages in LOMBOK. PUASS!! PUASS!! Attached Images

4th May 2007, 08:44 AM	#4
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Hi Dave, the Keris Karno Tinanding is already came yesterday. I looked again and again and again....... Dave, according of authentic kembang kacang of this keris, then this keris is included "keris bener". Kembang kacang on back side (wadidhang -x-) is thick/normal. So, if this keris was already added/modified, then kembang kacang on back side became thin (thiner), and is hard/almost impossible because how to bend/warp (melengkungkan) the kembang kacang by the time iron is hot. Dave, kembang kacang is resulted (dihasilkan) from process of splitting-up iron/blade and (dipuntir = English?) Again, So....if kembang kacang is already thin, then is almost impossible/hard because easy get broken. Dave, sorry....I tried my best to explain it in your languages Dave, the blade is ASLIES but the pamor is not my taste Attached Images

5th May 2007, 06:33 AM	#6
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Yes yes, you right Rick, It is possible of course and also I though same as your when first time I saw it. Rick, many time I saw this kind of blades in Lombok THAT the blade and gonjo is not same colour and even not same material of iron and here one of them (Pls see pic carrefully). And now come up 2 opinions of me. 1. It is possible that the gonjo is being added later on...(But not for keris trading for now,please). We saw together when blade stil dirty. 2. It could b A TREND for keris at that time in LOMBOK that blade and gonjo is not in same colour/material just to make a little diffrent than others. (Rick, just my opinion). I think, second reason is more I believed now. hmmm.... I wonder what Alan's opinion, Rick. The man knew the field. Rick, let me try to call him from his meditation's cave. He might want to come up. Ooops! I hope, I don't disturb him, otherwise bad dream come true. Hi Alan, How are you today? Attached Images Last edited by brekele; 5th May 2007 at 06:54 AM.

24th April 2007, 04:22 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Nice collection. Are these all yours or do they belong to your dealer friend?

24th April 2007, 05:52 PM	#3
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Hi Dave, some of them are flying already to their new owners. Some of them as I said, somewhere cross beautifull small villages in LOMBOK.

4th May 2007, 08:00 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Why did the Ganja not take the stain in the same way the rest of the blade did ? Possibly it is not made from the same forging ?

6th May 2007, 12:01 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Brekele, I think you may be confusing me with somebody else. I do not sit meditating in a cave, and your reference in the other thread which you have running at the moment, to a westerner conversing with Lombok dealers at some time in the past was most certainly not a reference to me. Yes, I have used meditation as a tool for virtually my entire life, at least for as far back as I can remember, but I do not isolate myself to meditate. I thank you for your compliment that I know the field of keris, however, my knowledge of keris in general is very slight. I have some small and very limited understanding of certain aspects of the keris, but these aspects are almost never touched upon in discussion in this, or any other forum, or which I am aware. The comments that I usually make in this forum are simply the repetition of either published information, or general knowledge within the Javanese keris community. Definitely nothing special, nor necessarily a reflection of my personal views.. Regarding the difference in the material used in gonjos to that used in blades. I have no opinion on this. However, generally accepted belief in Jawa is that there are a number of possible reasons:- in an old keris, it could be to replace a lost or damaged gonjo, or it could be to replace a gonjo used in the manufacture of a keris intended as the "son" of the original keris; a gonjo without pamor could also have been used to conceal the pamor used in the blade, as a measure of protection for the owner. In a recently made keris it could be to give the impression that the keris is older than it may appear to be. In both old and recent keris it could be because the maker ran short of the same material as used in the blade, or forgot to cut off sufficient for the gonjo from the forging before welding in the core. A number of possible reasons, and no way of knowing exactly why the gonjo material may differ from the blade material in any specific blade.

8th May 2007, 11:10 AM	#8
cahaya Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 49	hi Mr. Brekele can we look a ditail keris, a number 4 from the left (from your collection) ? pic No.1 thnks