IS THIS AN AFRICAN DAGGER ? PAGING THE EXPERTS

katana · 10th April 2007, 04:09 PM

Hi Fernando,
the amount of decoration on the sheath...opposite to the 'window' side...suggests that this would be the facing side. So the question is......why is there a window

It would make sense that you could make a weapon look larger (and therefor have more status) by putting a knife/sword in a scabbard that was too big. If this was a common practice perhaps the 'window' was a way of showing that the scabbard was 'full of blade'......the only thing is ...the window would have to be on the facing side...so that it could be seen.

If I am right and the blade window faces the body, then, perhaps, there could be some cultural/religious reason.....I can see no practical reason to leave part of the blade exposed to the 'elements' (humidity etc)

katana · 10th April 2007, 04:27 PM

Just found these images of two old shields attributed to the Mandara...
with similar designs to the sheath...

http://www.afrikana.de/index.php?9&b...t_products=388

http://www.afrikana.de/index.php?9&b...t_products=544

Flavio · 10th April 2007, 07:51 PM

Hi all, I can't say nothing about the open work on the scabbard, but on the book "De fer et de fiertè" the author (Jan Elsen) says that the groups of the North Cameroon are master of the technique of lost wax and that the brass sheathed knives resemble the ones in wood and leather. So maybe the brass versions are used for ceremonial purpose?? (like, in reverse view, like the ikulas and the ilwoons in wooden that are used among the Kuba - Congo - in some periods)

fernando · 10th April 2007, 08:59 PM

Hi David
I am glad for your mutual interest in trying to find how things make sense. I was precisely going to ( somehow ) sugest what Flavio has just brought up in a clear manner. These pieces not be for hanging against the body, weapon like, but for decoration or cerimonial purposes, or even for trading as money or the like.
In other words, to be held in hands, with a double face look, thus with trimings in both sides. This not excluding that the "window" was to show off the contents, as you sugested, to proof that the thing had some added value. In above example 133 the blade is much much smaller than the sheath. BTW, I must say that in my piece, the scabbard collar doesn't fit into the handle slot as a functional weapon should do.
Here's another example i found in the Net, a bit more modern, but of a similar situation ... i still think my piece is a bit older

http://www.hermann-historica.de/aukt...db=kat48_1.txt
Thank you so much for the precious input, Flavio.
fernando

Flavio · 10th April 2007, 10:33 PM

Hi Fernando, I'm happy to be of some help

unfortunatly, for what I know, there is little written on this part of Africa.

10th April 2007, 07:51 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi all, I can't say nothing about the open work on the scabbard, but on the book "De fer et de fiertè" the author (Jan Elsen) says that the groups of the North Cameroon are master of the technique of lost wax and that the brass sheathed knives resemble the ones in wood and leather. So maybe the brass versions are used for ceremonial purpose?? (like, in reverse view, like the ikulas and the ilwoons in wooden that are used among the Kuba - Congo - in some periods) Attached Images

10th April 2007, 08:59 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi David I am glad for your mutual interest in trying to find how things make sense. I was precisely going to ( somehow ) sugest what Flavio has just brought up in a clear manner. These pieces not be for hanging against the body, weapon like, but for decoration or cerimonial purposes, or even for trading as money or the like. In other words, to be held in hands, with a double face look, thus with trimings in both sides. This not excluding that the "window" was to show off the contents, as you sugested, to proof that the thing had some added value. In above example 133 the blade is much much smaller than the sheath. BTW, I must say that in my piece, the scabbard collar doesn't fit into the handle slot as a functional weapon should do. Here's another example i found in the Net, a bit more modern, but of a similar situation ... i still think my piece is a bit older http://www.hermann-historica.de/aukt...db=kat48_1.txt Thank you so much for the precious input, Flavio. fernando Last edited by fernando; 10th April 2007 at 09:35 PM.

10th April 2007, 04:09 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Fernando, the amount of decoration on the sheath...opposite to the 'window' side...suggests that this would be the facing side. So the question is......why is there a window It would make sense that you could make a weapon look larger (and therefor have more status) by putting a knife/sword in a scabbard that was too big. If this was a common practice perhaps the 'window' was a way of showing that the scabbard was 'full of blade'......the only thing is ...the window would have to be on the facing side...so that it could be seen. If I am right and the blade window faces the body, then, perhaps, there could be some cultural/religious reason.....I can see no practical reason to leave part of the blade exposed to the 'elements' (humidity etc)

10th April 2007, 04:27 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Just found these images of two old shields attributed to the Mandara... with similar designs to the sheath... http://www.afrikana.de/index.php?9&b...t_products=388 http://www.afrikana.de/index.php?9&b...t_products=544

10th April 2007, 10:33 PM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Fernando, I'm happy to be of some help unfortunatly, for what I know, there is little written on this part of Africa.