Pamor Staining in the UK?

David · 8th April 2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Would gun black work? There is a gunsmith not far from were I live. I have a tombak I would quite like to stain now that I have cleaned it.

There are many sustances that will stain the iron of a keris or tombak...however, only arsenic will render it in the "proper" colors when done under the best of curcumstances. So in the end it will depend upon how much you feel obligated to maintaining the piece as it is traditionally supposed to look. For me personally that has some importance. For those who are not as much a stickler for authenticity other substances might do.

A. G. Maisey · 9th April 2007, 03:29 AM

Treasure thy arsenic whilst ye may.

The price of warangan in Solo has gone through the roof. It is still possible to get it done at a reasonable---although greatly elevated---cost, but the result is disgusting. A good job now costs like gold and that is if you can find somebody to do a good job.

Cost of the material has gone up, there is an increasing demand, and import of any type of arsenic has apparently been banned.

I think it will not be too long before sellers are offering blades for sale stained with ferric chloride, and with the option of a warangan stain at an extra cost.

It may well be that in time to come the only places to get a good quality traditional stain could be somewhere in the western world.

Hope I'm wrong, but the current cost of a good stain job is just not realistic, nor sustainable.

David · 9th April 2007, 01:22 PM

Alan, just for a point of reference, could you tell us what the average cost of a good staining actually is these days?

William.m · 9th April 2007, 11:29 PM

Hmm, I had a contact in France I think who would stain keris for £30. I wish I could find his details though!

Anyways thanks for the response so far.

Will

A. G. Maisey · 10th April 2007, 03:53 AM

David, as you would understand , that is a very difficult question for me to answer.

I probably cannot answer that question.

I can tell you this:- in the mid 1980's a very well known Solo m'ranggi was flown to Pontianak and paid the equivalent of a year's salary for a middle manager, to clean and stain a very small collection of keris. His return flight was also paid and he was provided with accomodation whilst there.

I know of one case of a wealthy collector who was so pleased with a clean and stain job that he gifted a car to the man who did the job.

I also know of many instances where a stain job will be done for nothing.

The cost of sufficient warangan to do a single blade, once, by the pinch method is now roughly $US2.

Jeruk nipis (limes) are currently around $US0.60 per kilo in Solo.

A moderately skilled tradesman gets RP50.000 per day in Solo(RP.9000=$US1).

A m'ranggi is a skilled artisan, not a bricklayer.

It can take anywhere between ten minutes and ten days to produce a good stain on a blade. And you need the experience to know what each individual blade should look like, and the skill to make it look that way.

Marcokeris · 10th April 2007, 08:49 AM

Some years ago, in Italy i bought realgar in a mineral shop and after i used it on a keris blade. The result was bad: at the and of the process (in a solution of realgar's dust and lemon) over the keris' blade remained a very thin coating of yellow /orange dust (sulphur?) and was very difficult to remove this dust.
On the contrary pink realgar buyed in indonesia never leaves residual matter sticked on the blade .

David · 10th April 2007, 01:42 PM

Thanks Alan. Though a difficult question you still managed to tell me what i wanted to know.

9th April 2007, 03:29 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Treasure thy arsenic whilst ye may. The price of warangan in Solo has gone through the roof. It is still possible to get it done at a reasonable---although greatly elevated---cost, but the result is disgusting. A good job now costs like gold and that is if you can find somebody to do a good job. Cost of the material has gone up, there is an increasing demand, and import of any type of arsenic has apparently been banned. I think it will not be too long before sellers are offering blades for sale stained with ferric chloride, and with the option of a warangan stain at an extra cost. It may well be that in time to come the only places to get a good quality traditional stain could be somewhere in the western world. Hope I'm wrong, but the current cost of a good stain job is just not realistic, nor sustainable.

9th April 2007, 01:22 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Alan, just for a point of reference, could you tell us what the average cost of a good staining actually is these days?

9th April 2007, 11:29 PM	#4
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Hmm, I had a contact in France I think who would stain keris for £30. I wish I could find his details though! Anyways thanks for the response so far. Will

10th April 2007, 03:53 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	David, as you would understand , that is a very difficult question for me to answer. I probably cannot answer that question. I can tell you this:- in the mid 1980's a very well known Solo m'ranggi was flown to Pontianak and paid the equivalent of a year's salary for a middle manager, to clean and stain a very small collection of keris. His return flight was also paid and he was provided with accomodation whilst there. I know of one case of a wealthy collector who was so pleased with a clean and stain job that he gifted a car to the man who did the job. I also know of many instances where a stain job will be done for nothing. The cost of sufficient warangan to do a single blade, once, by the pinch method is now roughly $US2. Jeruk nipis (limes) are currently around $US0.60 per kilo in Solo. A moderately skilled tradesman gets RP50.000 per day in Solo(RP.9000=$US1). A m'ranggi is a skilled artisan, not a bricklayer. It can take anywhere between ten minutes and ten days to produce a good stain on a blade. And you need the experience to know what each individual blade should look like, and the skill to make it look that way.

10th April 2007, 08:49 AM	#6
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Some years ago, in Italy i bought realgar in a mineral shop and after i used it on a keris blade. The result was bad: at the and of the process (in a solution of realgar's dust and lemon) over the keris' blade remained a very thin coating of yellow /orange dust (sulphur?) and was very difficult to remove this dust. On the contrary pink realgar buyed in indonesia never leaves residual matter sticked on the blade .

10th April 2007, 01:42 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Thanks Alan. Though a difficult question you still managed to tell me what i wanted to know.