Stone club.

Tim Simmons · 19th March 2007, 10:02 PM

Scouting for boys, don't make me laugh

.
I like those Aus aboriginal clubs and axes. There is no gum on my club. I do not think it is possible to really understand it unless it is in your hand. It is a mans weapon and I would imagine a Mr Big type fellow. You must have big scouts in the USA.

inveterate · 19th March 2007, 10:10 PM

Andrew, the "Gum" is from the Spinifix plant, a grass, and is Resin. Cheers Rod

VANDOO · 20th March 2007, 01:27 AM

ITS GOOD TO KNOW WHAT THE GUM IS MADE OF I KNEW SPINIFEX WAS A GRASS BUT HAD NO IDEA YOU COULD GET RESIN FROM IT. I HAD HEARD SOME TREES CALLED GUM TREES SO I GUESS I GOT THE WRONG IDEA FROM ASSOCIATION.

OH WELL I NEVER CLAIM TO BE ALL KNOWING OR PERFECT AND WOULD NEVER SAY ANYTHING AT ALL IF I WAS WORRIED ABOUT BEING WRONG.

I AM NOT SUGGESTING THE CLUB BEING DISCUSSED IS A BOY SCOUT PROJECT. BUT THE BOWS ,CLUBS, LANCES, SLINGS,SPEARS AND OTHER THINGS WE MADE IN THE SCOUTS WERE MADE OF THE PROPER MATERIALS USING THE OLD TRIBAL TECKNIQUES AND WERE ALL WORKING WEAPONS WITH THE APPROPRIATE DECORATIONS AND MARKINGS. BEING YOUNG BOYS OF COURSE WE USED THEM ROUGHLY UNTIL MOST WERE DAMMAGED OR DESTROYED THERE WERE A FEW INJURYS A BROKEN COLLAR BONE WAS THE MOST SERIOUS IN OUR TROOP. WE EVEN MADE OUR PAINTS USING NATURAL PIGMENTS IF I STILL HAD MINE THEY WOULD BE ABOUT 50 YEARS OLD NOW.
I HAVE SEEN SOME OF THOSE ITEMS OVER THE YEARS IN GARAGE SALES AND A FEW I SUSPECT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MADE FOR THAT PURPOSE ON EBAY ALONG WITH THE MANY REPLICA AND SOUVINEER AMERICAN TRIBAL ITEMS. SO I THINK IT IS GOOD INFORMATION FOR COLLECTORS TO HAVE AS IT IS JUST ONE OF THE MANY FACETS OF HOME MADE ITEMS TO BE FOUND, THERE MAY EVEN BE THOSE WHO SPECIALIZE IN COLLECTING SUCH ITEMS.

fearn · 21st March 2007, 05:34 AM

Thanks for the votes of confidence, Tim and Vandoo.

I was googling around to see what I could find in the way of information on Torres Strait Island clubs, and all I found was an article that says that there was a steady trade in club heads between the islands and the southern coast of PNG. The heads here (as I recall) disk shaped with a hole in them, and were made out of good stone. The name of these clubs was something like gabagaba. No pictures, unfortunately, but I'm guessing it's the kind of club mentioned in Stone's Glossary.

Anyway, that's not what we have here. I'm sticking with my original guess.

0.02 cents,

F

Tim Simmons · 21st March 2007, 09:31 AM

Again I feel there is room here for you to lend substance to your thinking with related information and illustration. I can extend the area of investigation throughout Melanesia, Micronesia and find many forms of weapon, wood and stone that in ways relate to the piece in question. The likeness to Biro-Biro totems {how extensive is this and other cassowary cults?} and weapons that were clearly based on this concept plus the fact that flint was a trade commodity in Melanesia and beyond through the Torres Straits is quite weighty. With the absents of field research and time to access collections in various cities I have in the very least tried to present a reasoned and informed opinion. Can you elaborate on your indication that flint nodule clubs were not made? I will keep this in mind and in the coming few months find time to visit the British Museum, and the Brighton museum where there is a good permanent display of Melanesian artifacts to do more research on the matter. I would find it hard to claim anything ardently without having the opportunity to handle the item. It will only be a matter of time before more conclusive evidence emerges like in an earlier discussion.

Bill · 21st March 2007, 03:56 PM

The sinew looks fairly large, as well a long piece. Would a dog be able to provide that? It looks like it would need to be from a larger animal. The cloth covered wire on it looks to be some sort of communications wire & fairly old. I don't think it proves much but may shade some light on when it was once displayed. The worm holes are also a nice touch. Doesn't look like any chips on the ends, so I doubt it was ever used as a tool. Hope you can put a time & place to an interesting piece.

Tim Simmons · 21st March 2007, 04:48 PM

Bill it seems to be one long strip of bark. I assume it is soaked to make it more elastic or it had these properties when fresh to shrink on itself like hide work in East Africa. Forming a very tight hold. It is indeed tight enough to run amok with confidence. Interesting that the this part of the Pacific completed the world telegraph network in 1902 I believe. Here is some more stuff on trade in the Torres Straits and PNG Fly river region.

I have started the process to make an appointment at the British Museums ethnographic department study room on the matter of flint headed clubs and will report all.

21st March 2007, 09:31 AM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Again I feel there is room here for you to lend substance to your thinking with related information and illustration. I can extend the area of investigation throughout Melanesia, Micronesia and find many forms of weapon, wood and stone that in ways relate to the piece in question. The likeness to Biro-Biro totems {how extensive is this and other cassowary cults?} and weapons that were clearly based on this concept plus the fact that flint was a trade commodity in Melanesia and beyond through the Torres Straits is quite weighty. With the absents of field research and time to access collections in various cities I have in the very least tried to present a reasoned and informed opinion. Can you elaborate on your indication that flint nodule clubs were not made? I will keep this in mind and in the coming few months find time to visit the British Museum, and the Brighton museum where there is a good permanent display of Melanesian artifacts to do more research on the matter. I would find it hard to claim anything ardently without having the opportunity to handle the item. It will only be a matter of time before more conclusive evidence emerges like in an earlier discussion. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 21st March 2007 at 02:07 PM. Reason: spelling

21st March 2007, 04:48 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Bill it seems to be one long strip of bark. I assume it is soaked to make it more elastic or it had these properties when fresh to shrink on itself like hide work in East Africa. Forming a very tight hold. It is indeed tight enough to run amok with confidence. Interesting that the this part of the Pacific completed the world telegraph network in 1902 I believe. Here is some more stuff on trade in the Torres Straits and PNG Fly river region. I have started the process to make an appointment at the British Museums ethnographic department study room on the matter of flint headed clubs and will report all. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 21st March 2007 at 05:17 PM.

19th March 2007, 10:02 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Scouting for boys, don't make me laugh . I like those Aus aboriginal clubs and axes. There is no gum on my club. I do not think it is possible to really understand it unless it is in your hand. It is a mans weapon and I would imagine a Mr Big type fellow. You must have big scouts in the USA.

19th March 2007, 10:10 PM	#2
inveterate Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 58	Andrew, the "Gum" is from the Spinifix plant, a grass, and is Resin. Cheers Rod

20th March 2007, 01:27 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ITS GOOD TO KNOW WHAT THE GUM IS MADE OF I KNEW SPINIFEX WAS A GRASS BUT HAD NO IDEA YOU COULD GET RESIN FROM IT. I HAD HEARD SOME TREES CALLED GUM TREES SO I GUESS I GOT THE WRONG IDEA FROM ASSOCIATION. OH WELL I NEVER CLAIM TO BE ALL KNOWING OR PERFECT AND WOULD NEVER SAY ANYTHING AT ALL IF I WAS WORRIED ABOUT BEING WRONG. I AM NOT SUGGESTING THE CLUB BEING DISCUSSED IS A BOY SCOUT PROJECT. BUT THE BOWS ,CLUBS, LANCES, SLINGS,SPEARS AND OTHER THINGS WE MADE IN THE SCOUTS WERE MADE OF THE PROPER MATERIALS USING THE OLD TRIBAL TECKNIQUES AND WERE ALL WORKING WEAPONS WITH THE APPROPRIATE DECORATIONS AND MARKINGS. BEING YOUNG BOYS OF COURSE WE USED THEM ROUGHLY UNTIL MOST WERE DAMMAGED OR DESTROYED THERE WERE A FEW INJURYS A BROKEN COLLAR BONE WAS THE MOST SERIOUS IN OUR TROOP. WE EVEN MADE OUR PAINTS USING NATURAL PIGMENTS IF I STILL HAD MINE THEY WOULD BE ABOUT 50 YEARS OLD NOW. I HAVE SEEN SOME OF THOSE ITEMS OVER THE YEARS IN GARAGE SALES AND A FEW I SUSPECT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MADE FOR THAT PURPOSE ON EBAY ALONG WITH THE MANY REPLICA AND SOUVINEER AMERICAN TRIBAL ITEMS. SO I THINK IT IS GOOD INFORMATION FOR COLLECTORS TO HAVE AS IT IS JUST ONE OF THE MANY FACETS OF HOME MADE ITEMS TO BE FOUND, THERE MAY EVEN BE THOSE WHO SPECIALIZE IN COLLECTING SUCH ITEMS.

21st March 2007, 05:34 AM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Thanks for the votes of confidence, Tim and Vandoo. I was googling around to see what I could find in the way of information on Torres Strait Island clubs, and all I found was an article that says that there was a steady trade in club heads between the islands and the southern coast of PNG. The heads here (as I recall) disk shaped with a hole in them, and were made out of good stone. The name of these clubs was something like gabagaba. No pictures, unfortunately, but I'm guessing it's the kind of club mentioned in Stone's Glossary. Anyway, that's not what we have here. I'm sticking with my original guess. 0.02 cents, F

21st March 2007, 03:56 PM	#6
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	The sinew looks fairly large, as well a long piece. Would a dog be able to provide that? It looks like it would need to be from a larger animal. The cloth covered wire on it looks to be some sort of communications wire & fairly old. I don't think it proves much but may shade some light on when it was once displayed. The worm holes are also a nice touch. Doesn't look like any chips on the ends, so I doubt it was ever used as a tool. Hope you can put a time & place to an interesting piece.