A Burmese dha with silver and copper koftgari

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 12th March 2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

I had the one inscription wrong - it does indeed have three names. I can't find my translation of the second, so I might be mis-remembering it as well.

Maung Bo Thein is definitely a person's name ( Burmese has three tones and one variant . The Bo in that name is the third long tone like in "it's soooo not true ... " or "go " whereas Bo in leader is the middle tone like when one pronounces the letter "o" ) Bo means geat grand father or perhaps just grand . How old is that sword . The combination of syllables would hint a a name which would have been popular at the turn of the last century 1900s - 1930s . If the sword maker / owner is still alive he would be at least in his seventies .

Not sure why it is written Po in english the consonant used is definately ba a hard "b".

The second sword bears the name Maung Ba : again an old fashioned name .

Mark · 12th March 2007, 09:58 PM

The first sword is not one I have seen in person, so I can't say whether there is a date on it somewhere. There is none on the parts I can see in photos the owner sent me. Given the fact that it has an English transliteration, my assumption is that it is no earlier than 1826, probably more likely after 1886. But that is purely based on the assumption that pre-occupation incriptions would not have had an English transliteration.

The second one has two dates - one associated with a dedication on the scabbard to Thadi Thiri Min Hla Ye Kaung that translates to 1798 in the Western calendar, and another on a dedication on the blade itself that translates to 1919. The one on the scabbard (on the opposite side to the name Maung Bo) is on a panel separately affixed to the scabbard, while the one on the blade is in silver overlay and part of the original decoration. I am therefore inclined now to go with the later date as the more accurate one.

Another word that is transliterated into English as bo' is the title of a commander of 500 men (also tat-bo'). I have no idea which intonation that equates to, and thus whether it might relate to these dedications. The actual written form was not provided in the reference I have.

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 13th March 2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

The first sword is not one I have seen in person, so I can't say whether there is a date on it somewhere. There is none on the parts I can see in photos the owner sent me. Given the fact that it has an English transliteration, my assumption is that it is no earlier than 1826, probably more likely after 1886. But that is purely based on the assumption that pre-occupation incriptions would not have had an English transliteration.

The second one has two dates - one associated with a dedication on the scabbard to Thadi Thiri Min Hla Ye Kaung that translates to 1798 in the Western calendar, and another on a dedication on the blade itself that translates to 1919. The one on the scabbard (on the opposite side to the name Maung Bo) is on a panel separately affixed to the scabbard, while the one on the blade is in silver overlay and part of the original decoration. I am therefore inclined now to go with the later date as the more accurate one.

Another word that is transliterated into English as bo' is the title of a commander of 500 men (also tat-bo'). I have no idea which intonation that equates to, and thus whether it might relate to these dedications. The actual written form was not provided in the reference I have.

Is it possible that the blade was refashioned and that is why the 2 dates do not correspond ? I would think it unlikely that someone would deliberately misdate it in 1912 to pass off as an antique from 1798 . I thought the concept of cherishing anything old for the purpose of making money from it is more of a modern day one .

It's also not unusual for the Burmese to reuse / salvage / recycle things . Palaces were often dismantled and reused and frequently not reassembled in the original way .

Could you show me a scan of this dedication ?

The second inscription is Maung Ba not Maung Bo . Ba is a masculine name ( meaning father ) and is old fashioned . You'll rarely see anyone younger than 60 -70 with this syllable in their name.

bo' in tat-bo' is the same bo as in leader . Tat means army or troops ( tat-ma-daw = royal army ) and tat-bo' simply means troop commander

12th March 2007, 09:58 PM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	The first sword is not one I have seen in person, so I can't say whether there is a date on it somewhere. There is none on the parts I can see in photos the owner sent me. Given the fact that it has an English transliteration, my assumption is that it is no earlier than 1826, probably more likely after 1886. But that is purely based on the assumption that pre-occupation incriptions would not have had an English transliteration. The second one has two dates - one associated with a dedication on the scabbard to Thadi Thiri Min Hla Ye Kaung that translates to 1798 in the Western calendar, and another on a dedication on the blade itself that translates to 1919. The one on the scabbard (on the opposite side to the name Maung Bo) is on a panel separately affixed to the scabbard, while the one on the blade is in silver overlay and part of the original decoration. I am therefore inclined now to go with the later date as the more accurate one. Another word that is transliterated into English as bo' is the title of a commander of 500 men (also tat-bo'). I have no idea which intonation that equates to, and thus whether it might relate to these dedications. The actual written form was not provided in the reference I have.