Man with a dha ?

RhysMichael · 2nd March 2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Alaung_Hpaya~

Hi all,

Here's a similar military gown courtesy of the Myanmar Ministry of Culture

Thats a great example of one thanks for posting this and welcome to the forum

Mark · 5th March 2007, 05:59 PM

Welcome to the forum. That is a very nice example, indeed. Would you happen to be Myanma yourself? We have sorely felt the lack of anyone who can translate Myanma text, and might have some knowledge or contacts for dha-related information.

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 9th March 2007, 01:11 PM

Hi,

I can see why collecting dha can be addictive . I might start one day ,finances permitting .

Yes I am Bama ( culturally - ethnically a hotch potch ) and named after U Aung Zeya hence the username. I've grown up abroad so my ability to read even comtemporary Burmese is poor but my ability to read Pali is non existent . I'll try to help if I can with any translations.

Myanmar has always been the written name with Bama being the spoken form . ( except these days I hear lots of young people who grew up after the "change" of name who refer to themselves as Myanmar )

I can see the reasons for wanting a non-ethnocentric umbrella term like British but as the junta has no legitamacy people resent anything that they do .

That aside ...

Back to topic - The fighting dha lwe is often called Hnget Kyi Taung Dha ( meaning lit. Bird Large Feather Dha ) and one is owned by practically every family in rural areas and by many in the cities .

Many came out from under beds and floor boards during the 1988 uprisings.

Here's another drawing from Journal of a residence in the Burmham empire, and more particularly at the court of Amarapoorah 1821 showing a trooper - its that a horn or a dha ? Seems highly disproportioned if it's meant to be the latter .

Mark · 9th March 2007, 08:40 PM

OK. Myanmar is written, Bama is spoken. Thanks for the clarification.

The Western literature is all over the place, using Burmese, Burman, Bama, Mramma, Mranma, Myanma, Myanmar, and on and on.

You mentioned Pali. I have often read that official documents and inscriptions on stele and pagoda were in Pali, but I had assumed that there was a different alphabet used. Is it the same as that used for Myanmar (kind of like Latin and English)?

Anyway, back to dha. Is a Hnget Kyi Taung Dha a particular form of dha lwe, or a different (more formal? more precise?) for the dha lwe? I never know how closely transliterations into English are, but on one dha of mine there is a dedication reading (in part) "Thado Thiri Min Hla Ye Kaung Dha," and I can't figure out if that is all a name, part a title, or some combination. It makes me want to learn Burmese.

The dha in the picture you posted looks like an even more extreme stylization of the one in the picture at the top of the thread. It resembles a bit one appearing in an illustriation of Syme's "An Embassy to the Court of Ava." I have a scan somewhere, and I'll post it. It has the same radical flaring of the scabbard, and overall squat appearance. Who was the author of the reference you cited? I haven't come across it yet.

You can look forward to a lot of brain-picking from the "dha guys" here.

We have been starved for Burmese expertise.

You have a very illustrious namesake, by the way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Alaung_Hpaya~

Hi,

I can see why collecting dha can be addictive . I might start one day ,finances permitting .

Yes I am Bama ( culturally - ethnically a hotch potch ) and named after U Aung Zeya hence the username. I've grown up abroad so my ability to read even comtemporary Burmese is poor but my ability to read Pali is non existent . I'll try to help if I can with any translations.

Myanmar has always been the written name with Bama being the spoken form . ( except these days I hear lots of young people who grew up after the "change" of name who refer to themselves as Myanmar )

I can see the reasons for wanting a non-ethnocentric umbrella term like British but as the junta has no legitamacy people resent anything that they do .

That aside ...

Back to topic - The fighting dha lwe is often called Hnget Kyi Taung Dha ( meaning lit. Bird Large Feather Dha ) and one is owned by practically every family in rural areas and by many in the cities .

Many came out from under beds and floor boards during the 1988 uprisings.

Here's another drawing from Journal of a residence in the Burmham empire, and more particularly at the court of Amarapoorah 1821 showing a trooper - its that a horn or a dha ? Seems highly disproportioned if it's meant to be the latter .

PUFF · 11th March 2007, 09:23 AM

Pali uses its "host" country 's alphabet. It could be written in Thai, Lanna, Mon, Burma or even Sinhala alphabet. There 's a story that Siam, Srilanka and Burma monks talk Pali in an international Buddhist meeting for they could not understand others native language.

Mark · 12th March 2007, 03:02 PM

Ah, I see. That is very interesting. Again, sort of like Latin in the early Christian church, which permitted communication across native languages.

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 12th March 2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

OK. Myanmar is written, Bama is spoken. Thanks for the clarification.

The Western literature is all over the place, using Burmese, Burman, Bama, Mramma, Mranma, Myanma, Myanmar, and on and on.

You mentioned Pali. I have often read that official documents and inscriptions on stele and pagoda were in Pali, but I had assumed that there was a different alphabet used. Is it the same as that used for Myanmar (kind of like Latin and English)?

Anyway, back to dha. Is a Hnget Kyi Taung Dha a particular form of dha lwe, or a different (more formal? more precise?) for the dha lwe? I never know how closely transliterations into English are, but on one dha of mine there is a dedication reading (in part) "Thado Thiri Min Hla Ye Kaung Dha," and I can't figure out if that is all a name, part a title, or some combination. It makes me want to learn Burmese.

The dha in the picture you posted looks like an even more extreme stylization of the one in the picture at the top of the thread. It resembles a bit one appearing in an illustriation of Syme's "An Embassy to the Court of Ava." I have a scan somewhere, and I'll post it. It has the same radical flaring of the scabbard, and overall squat appearance. Who was the author of the reference you cited? I haven't come across it yet.

You can look forward to a lot of brain-picking from the "dha guys" here.

We have been starved for Burmese expertise.

You have a very illustrious namesake, by the way.

Hi Mark,

Burmese , Burman are obvious anglicisations of Bama

According to linguists ( I'm not one ) the old pronunciation of Myanmar was Mranmar . How old I'm not sure . This is based on cognates with other Tibeto-Burman languages in which words which the Bama pronounce as Y are pronounced with a R in the others .

The Rakhine ( pronounced Yakhaing by the Bama ) speak a dialect which maintains an older form . Essentially I can undertand 80-90% of Rakhine ( pronounce all your Ys as Rs and you have a different dialect

)

As far as I know the long fighting dha ( as opposed to utilitarian wood cutting dha ) has always been known colloquially as Hgnet Kyi daung . Not sure if there would have any differentiation during the times of the Burmese kings .

"Thado Thiri Min Hla Ye Kaung " is a name ( of sorts ) . It's actually full of honorifics so is likely to be a title of a nobleman rather than his actual name .

The book the picture is from is :

I don't think it's available to purchase but you can read some pages from this site :

http://dlxs.library.cornell.edu/cgi/...w=image;seq=30

Hope this helps

Mark · 12th March 2007, 05:34 PM

Yes, I have heard of Hiram Cox (he was Symes' successor as envoy to the Court of Ava - moved to Amarapura at the time of his visit). I missed his book on the Cornell site. I love that site.

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 13th March 2007, 06:28 PM

I've done some research and indeed Thado Thiri Min Hla Ye Khaung is a title of a prince .

Thado means valour
Thiri means splendour ( same as Siri in Thai and Sri in Sri Lanka )

Both the above are Burmanised Pali words . I believe Thado Min refers to a senior prince : one of 18 allowed during the last dynasty of Konbaung.

Min means king / ruler
Hla means fair/ beautiful
Ye means brave / daring

These are Burmese words.

Not sure about Khaung ( can you show me a scan so that I can see which intonation is used ? )

5th March 2007, 05:59 PM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Welcome to the forum. That is a very nice example, indeed. Would you happen to be Myanma yourself? We have sorely felt the lack of anyone who can translate Myanma text, and might have some knowledge or contacts for dha-related information.

9th March 2007, 01:11 PM	#3
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	Hi, I can see why collecting dha can be addictive . I might start one day ,finances permitting . Yes I am Bama ( culturally - ethnically a hotch potch ) and named after U Aung Zeya hence the username. I've grown up abroad so my ability to read even comtemporary Burmese is poor but my ability to read Pali is non existent . I'll try to help if I can with any translations. Myanmar has always been the written name with Bama being the spoken form . ( except these days I hear lots of young people who grew up after the "change" of name who refer to themselves as Myanmar ) I can see the reasons for wanting a non-ethnocentric umbrella term like British but as the junta has no legitamacy people resent anything that they do . That aside ... Back to topic - The fighting dha lwe is often called Hnget Kyi Taung Dha ( meaning lit. Bird Large Feather Dha ) and one is owned by practically every family in rural areas and by many in the cities . Many came out from under beds and floor boards during the 1988 uprisings. Here's another drawing from Journal of a residence in the Burmham empire, and more particularly at the court of Amarapoorah 1821 showing a trooper - its that a horn or a dha ? Seems highly disproportioned if it's meant to be the latter .

11th March 2007, 09:23 AM	#5
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	Pali uses its "host" country 's alphabet. It could be written in Thai, Lanna, Mon, Burma or even Sinhala alphabet. There 's a story that Siam, Srilanka and Burma monks talk Pali in an international Buddhist meeting for they could not understand others native language.

12th March 2007, 03:02 PM	#6
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Ah, I see. That is very interesting. Again, sort of like Latin in the early Christian church, which permitted communication across native languages.

12th March 2007, 05:34 PM	#8
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Yes, I have heard of Hiram Cox (he was Symes' successor as envoy to the Court of Ava - moved to Amarapura at the time of his visit). I missed his book on the Cornell site. I love that site.

13th March 2007, 06:28 PM	#9
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	I've done some research and indeed Thado Thiri Min Hla Ye Khaung is a title of a prince . Thado means valour Thiri means splendour ( same as Siri in Thai and Sri in Sri Lanka ) Both the above are Burmanised Pali words . I believe Thado Min refers to a senior prince : one of 18 allowed during the last dynasty of Konbaung. Min means king / ruler Hla means fair/ beautiful Ye means brave / daring These are Burmese words. Not sure about Khaung ( can you show me a scan so that I can see which intonation is used ? )