A Berber saber?

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The scabbard on the Manding sword is diagonally geometric rather than checkerboard, and such geometrics are clearly widely used in many cultural spheres, so this comparison while interesting, I would still consider inconclusive.

As always! More research to be done

Good point Jim, Id missed that, perhaps in that case, we should look at the Dogon for a possible North African insperation to such cheqerboard designs though? whether by diffusian to surronding tribes or not?



To quote from.. http://www.uiowa.edu/~africart/toc/people/Dogon.html


"The Dogon are best known for their extensive carving of masks and wooden figurative art. The primary colors used by the Dogon are usually red, black, and white, and popular patterns include spirals and checkerboard motifs, both of which can be traced to their origin stories."

I assume these handles were intialy dyed red & black? that how it appears, to my eye?

The origin of this pattern in the region is reputadly from one of the 4 anscersters of the tribe.{The Nomo.}...

"Often depicted is the blacksmith Nommo, usually with a horse. He was the first to descend to earth in an ark or by means of a rainbow, bearing seeds and he laid out the first fields for agriculture. The chequer board patterns are associated with him and those fields"

from.

http://artworld.uea.ac.uk/teaching_m...n/welcome.html

So that combined with The grip shape could be an evolution or hybrid of North African grips, Nimcha, Berber Saber, Bou Saadi. Would perhaps mean North Africa shouldnt be ruled out?

It certanly visualy would sit comfterably in a North African weapons collection.

Spiral

[Tim Simmons]

I see that is a belt loop on the scabbard not a flap, The stitching and leather work does not seem to me to be native to N. Africa. I see a Spanish/Portuguese machete style. Spanish Morroco? I do not think the Iberian influence in SE Asia can be ruled out either. It does still not fit a nimcha just as much as something from SE Asia.

[ariel]

The two notches on the handle of this one make it look very much like Nimcha's.
The first one was nebulous.
This one clinched the deal.

[spiral]

Fascinating to my mind that the front of the scabbard seems to carry the belt, strap or tie, holder? rather than the presuamably seamed rear, , has anyone seen other examples of this front belt hanger before? I canrt recall any, myself.In european or indeed any other designs? {Althoughf of course it is a similar front affixing the loops & buttons serve on traditional kukri.. but I digress.}

Spiral

[ariel]

Originally Posted by spiral

Fascinating to my mind that the front of the scabbard seems to carry the belt, strap or tie, holder? rather than the presuamably seamed rear, , has anyone seen other examples of this front belt hanger before? I canrt recall any, myself.In european or indeed any other designs? {Althoughf of course it is a similar front affixing the loops & buttons serve on traditional kukri.. but I digress.}

Spiral

Not necessarily: it could have been worn shashka-style: edge up. My Bedouin " shashkas", however, are : one with a baldrick arragement and another with a kind of leather ring around the scabbard ( wear it any way you choose...)
Artzi is the person whose brain should be picked. He forgot more about Middle Eastern weapons than all of us remember.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by ariel

Not necessarily: it could have been worn shashka-style: edge up. .

My point was rather it was unlikely that the decoration was on the rear of the scabbard & the seam on the front?

That would remain the same whether worn edge up or down, I would imagine?

Spiral

[FenrisWolf]

Originally Posted by spiral

My point was rather it was unlikely that the decoration was on the rear of the scabbard & the seam on the front?

That would remain the same whether worn edge up or down, I would imagine?

Spiral

Worn edge up for right hand draw, with the belt passing over the scabbard and through the loop. That would match the stain/wear pattern that's visible. Having the scabbard held in place by the belt, rather than merely being supported by it, is actually quite common in the middle east, though I believe it's seen more often with daggers than swords.