A Berber saber?

ariel · 10th February 2007, 09:07 PM

Berber swords are classically characterised by 2 features:
1. pierced handle
2. reverse tip
Like that:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=91
Sometimes, one feature may be different, but when both are absent, I would look for the origin of this sword somewhere else.

Tim Simmons · 10th February 2007, 09:17 PM

Groovy pics. This is getting interesting. I still say the handle is not N African, the decoration is also far from N. African. Just look at how dramatic the curve is at the forte. I would also say that by N. African swords this has a rather primitive or even what could be seen as crude construction and decoration. I hope that does not upset anyone. The decoration looks like the far eastern islands of Indonesia to me.

Joe · 10th February 2007, 09:42 PM

Hmmm, does anybody know where checkerboard patterns were used as decorations on sword handles? That may provide a clue.

Btw, these two are owned by Adam Rose. One has a regular tip, and the other has a very slight concave tip.

Rick · 11th February 2007, 01:06 AM

I'm not saying that this is a Berber sabre.
I only point out that this is most likely a military blade remounted a la my example of a Berber sabre .
I also mention a passing resemblance to the Nimcha style hilt.
That does not mean that it is a relation; only food for thought .

Finally, I would like to see examples of this style of checkerboard and nail inlaid decoration in a Indo/Malay sword hilt if anyone has seen one; for I have not.

FenrisWolf · 11th February 2007, 08:09 AM

No luck on the hilt yet, but I did stumble across this version of a nimcha on the Therion Arms page. The blade is listed as 'napoleonic', and at 24 1/2" is identical in length to the one I just bought. Due to the poor angle in the pictures posted by the seller it's impossible to be sure, but it looks awfully close to me. Not also the slight humpback profile to the hilt, peraps due to the profile of the tang? Anyway, more food for thought.

PS -- I hope I didn't violate any rules by posting these pics. I did give credit for their source, and the item in question was already sold.

Tim Simmons · 11th February 2007, 09:16 AM

This hilt is from A. G.Van Zonnevelds, Traditional weapons of The Indonesian Archipelago. Okay it is not the same shape but does show the same decorative materials and technique. One could also argue that the shape is as similar as the Nimcha. In the aforementioned book swords from Timor like the hilt shown often had European blades. Also in this book pictures of other swords from Timor are all constructed in this more simple manner. I am sure I have some better pictures which I will add when I find then. I also want to add some pictures to the rust removal thread but can a find them

Maybe if I stop look so hard i will find what I want right in front of my eyes.

Flavio · 11th February 2007, 10:43 AM

Hi all! me too i was looking at this beauty (congratulations Fenris!!

) and i was thinking that is a north african sword. Maybe i'm wrong but the decoration on the handle remember me some decorations on maroccan or north african matchlock guns.

My twoo cents...

10th February 2007, 09:17 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Groovy pics. This is getting interesting. I still say the handle is not N African, the decoration is also far from N. African. Just look at how dramatic the curve is at the forte. I would also say that by N. African swords this has a rather primitive or even what could be seen as crude construction and decoration. I hope that does not upset anyone. The decoration looks like the far eastern islands of Indonesia to me. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 10th February 2007 at 09:34 PM.

10th February 2007, 09:42 PM	#3
Joe Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: McDonough, GA Posts: 48	Hmmm, does anybody know where checkerboard patterns were used as decorations on sword handles? That may provide a clue. Btw, these two are owned by Adam Rose. One has a regular tip, and the other has a very slight concave tip. Attached Images

11th February 2007, 09:16 AM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	This hilt is from A. G.Van Zonnevelds, Traditional weapons of The Indonesian Archipelago. Okay it is not the same shape but does show the same decorative materials and technique. One could also argue that the shape is as similar as the Nimcha. In the aforementioned book swords from Timor like the hilt shown often had European blades. Also in this book pictures of other swords from Timor are all constructed in this more simple manner. I am sure I have some better pictures which I will add when I find then. I also want to add some pictures to the rust removal thread but can a find them Maybe if I stop look so hard i will find what I want right in front of my eyes. Attached Images

10th February 2007, 09:07 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Berber swords are classically characterised by 2 features: 1. pierced handle 2. reverse tip Like that: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=91 Sometimes, one feature may be different, but when both are absent, I would look for the origin of this sword somewhere else.

11th February 2007, 01:06 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I'm not saying that this is a Berber sabre. I only point out that this is most likely a military blade remounted a la my example of a Berber sabre . I also mention a passing resemblance to the Nimcha style hilt. That does not mean that it is a relation; only food for thought . Finally, I would like to see examples of this style of checkerboard and nail inlaid decoration in a Indo/Malay sword hilt if anyone has seen one; for I have not.

11th February 2007, 08:09 AM	#5
FenrisWolf Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 181	No luck on the hilt yet, but I did stumble across this version of a nimcha on the Therion Arms page. The blade is listed as 'napoleonic', and at 24 1/2" is identical in length to the one I just bought. Due to the poor angle in the pictures posted by the seller it's impossible to be sure, but it looks awfully close to me. Not also the slight humpback profile to the hilt, peraps due to the profile of the tang? Anyway, more food for thought. PS -- I hope I didn't violate any rules by posting these pics. I did give credit for their source, and the item in question was already sold.

11th February 2007, 10:43 AM	#7
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi all! me too i was looking at this beauty (congratulations Fenris!! ) and i was thinking that is a north african sword. Maybe i'm wrong but the decoration on the handle remember me some decorations on maroccan or north african matchlock guns. My twoo cents...