Museum Nusantara

Dajak · 5th February 2007, 05:44 PM

Well there is an keris in the Netherlands that break down your car

This can be verified if it have to be

So I am not agree with you A.G. Maisey you based upon what your expirience are not what happend to other people based on true story s

And take my word for it if the keris don t like you he can make you sick or let you die even if you don t believe in it .

This has happend for real it is no funny story it is sad that some difficult are believing this

that s why most people don t tell story s what happend to them and not talk about the subject

But see if you can get books translated from H.W.M.J. Rijnders

Stille krachten van de kris

Geloven in bijgeloof

Ben

David · 5th February 2007, 06:39 PM

Ben, i think if you carefully reread what both Mr. Maisey and myself are saying you will see that neither of us necessarily disbelieve that these events can and do occur, nor do either of us find any of these events particularly funny. My question was not whether or not these things happen. Rather i am trying to get at the nature of the power and study just why it might have a effect on some people and not on others. Still, it seems to me that you are making these powers out to be somewhat omnipotent. I personally believe that these powers can, in fact must, serve a higher source. And if, as you say, a keris doesn't like me and makes me sick (which would seem odd to me since i care for it and feed it, therefore maintaining it's life) i always have the power to break it in pieces and throw it in the river or feed it back to the forge. I believe i am in essence more powerful than the keris. Now, if a keris is being used as a tool of black magick by another person against me that is another issue that would require a different approach. Then i am not just battling the will of the keris (if infact it has any), but the will of the other person as well. He may, in fact, be more powerful than i, but not his keris.

Dajak · 5th February 2007, 07:50 PM

Hi David sorry for misunderstanding you but don t forget that the other person when he have an high keris that have been trough strong persons hands
that keris may have more power than you think ever heard about an blood keris

Ben

A. G. Maisey · 5th February 2007, 10:26 PM

Ben, I said I would not be drawn into discussion of this matter, and I will not be.

Each of us is entitled to his own beliefs, and I totally endorse your right to your beliefs.

My own beliefs I have no intention of parading for public view, but these beliefs have been formed over a more than a 50 year period of association with Javanese society and culture. I have had close personal contact with Javanese society for 40 years; my wife of more than 30 years is from Jawa, similarly, my wife does have some paranormal powers and within a certain group of people is recognised as a medium and a distant viewer. I number amongst my close friends in Jawa three people who are recognised as empu, or pandai keris (although now retired), and I was Empu Suparman's student for many years.Additionally I know personally several people who are recognised dukuns. The elder brother of my housekeeper in Solo is able to transform himself into a tiger---at least in the eyes of other Javanese people.

Ben, I am buried up to the eyeballs in Javanese society, and Javanese paranormal belief.Upon this experience I have formed certain conclusions. I do not think I need to read any books about second hand experiences. I already have the first hand experiences.

But I will not discuss or debate any of this. We are all free to believe what we will.

Dajak · 6th February 2007, 04:27 AM

We Never to old to learn

Ben

A. G. Maisey · 6th February 2007, 07:09 AM

So true Ben, so very true.

Amuk Murugul · 6th February 2007, 08:31 AM

Punten...
Wilujeng sumadaya.

Hello everybody

Hmmmmm .... very interesting...

Ben, I guess you know then that hundreds of keris ( tourist or otherwise) are brought in to museums around the Netherlands by their owners who no longer feel comfortable having them.
BTW... have you read the novel De Stille Kracht?

Regarding paranormal/supernatural events .. aside from personal experience, I have had personal accounts from people as diverse as a Roman Catholic priest to a Muslim Kiyayi Haji. This does NOT ignore the many CHARLATANS.

Truth CAN be stranger than fiction.

However, the bottom line is: Everybody can believe what they like ...
in most cases anyway.

Regards.

Sampurna rasa ingsun.
Amit mundur ...

David · 6th February 2007, 02:25 PM

I will take your statement one step further Amuk Murugul. You say "Everyone can believe what they like", but it is more that everyone does believe what they like. Belief is a very powerful thing which is key to shaping our own personal realities. And to a certain extent i believe that we each live within our own specific realities. Much of these personal realities overlap, but there will always be aspects of mine that don't work in yours and vice versa. I could discribe magickal events that have taken place in my life that most people would dismiss as fantasy. But as you say, "truth" CAN be stranger than fiction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Well there is an keris in the Netherlands that break down your car
This can be verified if it have to be

It is interesting that most if not all of the stories we have heard here in regards to powerful keris ("evil" or otherwise) have been second and third hand accounts. And the details of these accounts have been very vague. I wonder if anyone here has any personal stories they might wish to share. As for verification Ben, i am curious how you can verify this car story or any other in this realm of experience. I don't say this to dismiss these stories out of hand, but merely to point out that these are all part of various people's personal realities. I have serious doubts that anyone can back up any of these stories with empirical proof. That doesn't necessarily mean they aren't "true". If you can prove it i happen to know that a guy who calls himself The Amazing Randi has got a million dollar prize for you. James Randi is a stage magician and escape artist who is offerring the prize to anyone whop can prove metapyshical phenomenon.

Dajak · 6th February 2007, 02:53 PM

Hi David come to the Netherlands I will bring you to the owner you can try
see if it works I am like to see if something happends to your car you are driving than we now that the story s about this keris is true I don t gonna touch the keris but you and we will see if something happend

I was in Bali on vacation in june/july and met some one from Holland who breaks down the car after he did see the keris and had him in his hands

so let me now when you gonna visit en we take a look if something happend.

I like to now too

Ben

David · 6th February 2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi David come to the Netherlands I will bring you to the owner you can try
see if it works I am like to see if something happends to your car you are driving than we now that the story s about this keris is true I don t gonna touch the keris but you and we will see if something happend

I was in Bali on vacation in june/july and met some one from Holland who breaks down the car after he did see the keris and had him in his hands

so let me now when you gonna visit en we take a look if something happend.

I like to now too

Ben

That would be fun Ben...and i have been wanting to visit the Netherlands for a very long time. Don't know when i can swing it, but i will be sure to let you know.

Dajak · 6th February 2007, 07:22 PM

Ok you welcome any time and let make one thing clear I don t touch it
it will be you and we take an rental car

just to be sure

Ben

Rick · 6th February 2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Ok you welcome any time and let make one thing clear I don t touch it
it will be you and we take an rental car

just to be sure

Ben

Someone must have had one hell of a time getting this keris to the Netherlands from Indonesia ...

Trains and boats and planes ..

Dajak · 6th February 2007, 08:01 PM

The keris is pictured in an book

Ben

David · 6th February 2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Someone must have had one hell of a time getting this keris to the Netherlands from Indonesia ...

Trains and boats and planes ..

Maybe they walked.

5th February 2007, 05:44 PM	#1
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Well there is an keris in the Netherlands that break down your car This can be verified if it have to be So I am not agree with you A.G. Maisey you based upon what your expirience are not what happend to other people based on true story s And take my word for it if the keris don t like you he can make you sick or let you die even if you don t believe in it . This has happend for real it is no funny story it is sad that some difficult are believing this that s why most people don t tell story s what happend to them and not talk about the subject But see if you can get books translated from H.W.M.J. Rijnders Stille krachten van de kris Geloven in bijgeloof Ben

5th February 2007, 06:39 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,237	Ben, i think if you carefully reread what both Mr. Maisey and myself are saying you will see that neither of us necessarily disbelieve that these events can and do occur, nor do either of us find any of these events particularly funny. My question was not whether or not these things happen. Rather i am trying to get at the nature of the power and study just why it might have a effect on some people and not on others. Still, it seems to me that you are making these powers out to be somewhat omnipotent. I personally believe that these powers can, in fact must, serve a higher source. And if, as you say, a keris doesn't like me and makes me sick (which would seem odd to me since i care for it and feed it, therefore maintaining it's life) i always have the power to break it in pieces and throw it in the river or feed it back to the forge. I believe i am in essence more powerful than the keris. Now, if a keris is being used as a tool of black magick by another person against me that is another issue that would require a different approach. Then i am not just battling the will of the keris (if infact it has any), but the will of the other person as well. He may, in fact, be more powerful than i, but not his keris.

5th February 2007, 07:50 PM	#3
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi David sorry for misunderstanding you but don t forget that the other person when he have an high keris that have been trough strong persons hands that keris may have more power than you think ever heard about an blood keris Ben

5th February 2007, 10:26 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Ben, I said I would not be drawn into discussion of this matter, and I will not be. Each of us is entitled to his own beliefs, and I totally endorse your right to your beliefs. My own beliefs I have no intention of parading for public view, but these beliefs have been formed over a more than a 50 year period of association with Javanese society and culture. I have had close personal contact with Javanese society for 40 years; my wife of more than 30 years is from Jawa, similarly, my wife does have some paranormal powers and within a certain group of people is recognised as a medium and a distant viewer. I number amongst my close friends in Jawa three people who are recognised as empu, or pandai keris (although now retired), and I was Empu Suparman's student for many years.Additionally I know personally several people who are recognised dukuns. The elder brother of my housekeeper in Solo is able to transform himself into a tiger---at least in the eyes of other Javanese people. Ben, I am buried up to the eyeballs in Javanese society, and Javanese paranormal belief.Upon this experience I have formed certain conclusions. I do not think I need to read any books about second hand experiences. I already have the first hand experiences. But I will not discuss or debate any of this. We are all free to believe what we will.

6th February 2007, 04:27 AM	#5
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	We Never to old to learn Ben

6th February 2007, 07:09 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	So true Ben, so very true.

6th February 2007, 08:31 AM	#7
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 473	Punten... Wilujeng sumadaya. Hello everybody Hmmmmm .... very interesting... Ben, I guess you know then that hundreds of keris ( tourist or otherwise) are brought in to museums around the Netherlands by their owners who no longer feel comfortable having them. BTW... have you read the novel De Stille Kracht? Regarding paranormal/supernatural events .. aside from personal experience, I have had personal accounts from people as diverse as a Roman Catholic priest to a Muslim Kiyayi Haji. This does NOT ignore the many CHARLATANS. Truth CAN be stranger than fiction. However, the bottom line is: Everybody can believe what they like ... in most cases anyway. Regards. Sampurna rasa ingsun. Amit mundur ...

6th February 2007, 02:53 PM	#9
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi David come to the Netherlands I will bring you to the owner you can try see if it works I am like to see if something happends to your car you are driving than we now that the story s about this keris is true I don t gonna touch the keris but you and we will see if something happend I was in Bali on vacation in june/july and met some one from Holland who breaks down the car after he did see the keris and had him in his hands so let me now when you gonna visit en we take a look if something happend. I like to now too Ben

6th February 2007, 07:22 PM	#11
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Ok you welcome any time and let make one thing clear I don t touch it it will be you and we take an rental car just to be sure Ben

6th February 2007, 08:01 PM	#13
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	The keris is pictured in an book Ben