Help with talismanic inscriptions?

Tim Simmons · 22nd January 2007, 08:59 PM

The swirly stuff does not have to be fire. It could be clouds and then we have a flying dragon? There is limited space to show all this information and I do not think we are looking at a weapon made for the court, so to speak.

Tim Simmons · 22nd January 2007, 09:39 PM

Just thought if the arcs near the handle are scales then they face the wrong way tail to head. This may have been done for convenience of pleasing design?

kai · 22nd January 2007, 10:17 PM

I don't think the egg/dragon ideas are going to fly...

There seem to be only few people left who can read the old Moro script. AFAIK it's not based on pictograms as, for example, Chinese script.

Considering the cultural setting, I wouldn't expect to find obvious graphic references. Repetitions are much more likely to be tied to some numerological symbolism IMVHO. I'd guess that the inlay of this kris is also mainly talismanic but getting even approximate/tentative guesstimates for just about any questions regarding these and their underlying symbolism seems to be very difficult.

Regards,
Kai

VVV · 23rd January 2007, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

... I'd guess that the inlay of this kris is also mainly talismanic but getting even approximate/tentative guesstimates for just about any questions regarding these and their underlying symbolism seems to be very difficult.

Regards,
Kai

I agree but even if it's difficult let's give it a try.
Maybe it will take a couple of years, maybe we will never find out?

Michael

Pangeran Datu · 23rd January 2007, 09:14 AM

Hi,

Consider:

- krises are mainly attributed to the 'Bangsa Moro', inhabiting the Southern Philippines and mainly Muslim.
- up until and during the Spanish conquest the main script used by the peoples of the Southern Philippines was Jawi/Kawi/Arabic, which is not pictographic .
- the only other major script is Eskaya, which is also not pictographic.

IMVHO, anything produced after the Spanish conquest is very unlikely to have scrtpt other than those mentioned and of course, Latin. Thus, the inlay is most probably mere decoration.

Having said that, I must admit that I do not recognise the symbols, if that's what they are.

Cheers.

VVV · 23rd January 2007, 10:49 AM

Pangeran Datu,

Thanks for your input on the possible scripts, maybe some more possible than others?
When looking at talismanic inscriptions and symbols I think we also have to consider the locally practised magic, in this case within "Folk Islam", where symbols from earlier religions, like Hinduism, has survived together with later symbols from Islam.
As well as local symbols that is difficult to trace to any religion.

That's one of the reasons why it's so interesting to study talismans on weapons where a lot of older beliefs quite often appears mixed together with the symbols of the present religion.

Michael

22nd January 2007, 09:39 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,846	another thought Just thought if the arcs near the handle are scales then they face the wrong way tail to head. This may have been done for convenience of pleasing design?

22nd January 2007, 08:59 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,846	The swirly stuff does not have to be fire. It could be clouds and then we have a flying dragon? There is limited space to show all this information and I do not think we are looking at a weapon made for the court, so to speak.

22nd January 2007, 10:17 PM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	I don't think the egg/dragon ideas are going to fly... There seem to be only few people left who can read the old Moro script. AFAIK it's not based on pictograms as, for example, Chinese script. Considering the cultural setting, I wouldn't expect to find obvious graphic references. Repetitions are much more likely to be tied to some numerological symbolism IMVHO. I'd guess that the inlay of this kris is also mainly talismanic but getting even approximate/tentative guesstimates for just about any questions regarding these and their underlying symbolism seems to be very difficult. Regards, Kai

23rd January 2007, 09:14 AM	#5
Pangeran Datu Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 79	Hi, Consider: - krises are mainly attributed to the 'Bangsa Moro', inhabiting the Southern Philippines and mainly Muslim. - up until and during the Spanish conquest the main script used by the peoples of the Southern Philippines was Jawi/Kawi/Arabic, which is not pictographic . - the only other major script is Eskaya, which is also not pictographic. IMVHO, anything produced after the Spanish conquest is very unlikely to have scrtpt other than those mentioned and of course, Latin. Thus, the inlay is most probably mere decoration. Having said that, I must admit that I do not recognise the symbols, if that's what they are. Cheers.

23rd January 2007, 10:49 AM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Pangeran Datu, Thanks for your input on the possible scripts, maybe some more possible than others? When looking at talismanic inscriptions and symbols I think we also have to consider the locally practised magic, in this case within "Folk Islam", where symbols from earlier religions, like Hinduism, has survived together with later symbols from Islam. As well as local symbols that is difficult to trace to any religion. That's one of the reasons why it's so interesting to study talismans on weapons where a lot of older beliefs quite often appears mixed together with the symbols of the present religion. Michael