Timor slingshot?

Pangeran Datu · 6th January 2007, 10:46 PM

G'day All,

I've become a bit confused by this thread.
I have always believed that SLINGSHOTS and CATAPAULTS were two different types of implements, the former requiring only a sling and the latter requiring some form of device for instant propulsion.

In my experience, hand-held catapaults in the Malay Archipelago (until the late '50s , anyway) were basically of two types:
- Y-prong: fashioned from a naturally-occuring branch of a tree, or one fashioned from a block of wood. The 'elastics' of the sling were fixed to the verticals.
- A block of wood carved into a handle with extra length above the grip of the same dimensions as the grip. On this extra length was 'gouged'/carved a small prong to fix the 'elastics' of the sling.

Generally, the more skillful one was, the smaller the Y-prong, the second type having the smallest prong of all. The 'elastic' was usually an inner tyre tube, cut to suit. I have never seen an adult use one of these implements, since there were countless alternatives for them.

There were basically two methods of launching the projectile:
- aiming at the target in a straight-line motion. ( This method has caused many accidents for the unwary, the projectile hitting the thumb or ricocheting off the 'Y' to hit other parts of the body)
- aiming at the target in a 'parabolic' motion.

BTW, in the UK in the '50s, metal-frame catapaults were available (the 'Y' looking more like a horseshoe with a handle), usually from a sports stores.

I would be most grateful for any elucidation/enlightenment.

Cheers.

katana · 7th January 2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pangeran Datu

G'day All,

I've become a bit confused by this thread.
I have always believed that SLINGSHOTS and CATAPAULTS were two different types of implements, the former requiring only a sling and the latter requiring some form of device for instant propulsion.

As far as I know, it seems that the 'catapult' is called a 'sling shot' in the America's. When searching on the web I found 'sling shot' would direct you to mainly American sites with information about 'catapults'. When putting 'catapult' in the search you tend to be directed to info about 'siege weapons', the larger 'rock hurling' variety......
And , I too, thought the basic 'sling' was called a 'sling shot' .....

Below is a pic. of my catapult (sling shot for our American friends

), with stabilizer weights, sight and arm rest...

Bill M · 7th January 2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

As far as I know, it seems that the 'catapult' is called a 'sling shot' in the America's. When searching on the web I found 'sling shot' would direct you to mainly American sites with information about 'catapults'. When putting 'catapult' in the search you tend to be directed to info about 'siege weapons', the larger 'rock hurling' variety......
And , I too, thought the basic 'sling' was called a 'sling shot' .....

Below is a pic. of my catapult (sling shot for our American friends

), with stabilizer weights, sight and arm rest...

What, no night vision zoom scope?

Looks like it has everything else!

I am still curious about mine. The Seller called it a "catapult." I do not see how it would work unless it had some sort of rubber. It could be old, because rubber inner tubes were invented sometime around 1910. But my piece has little to no wear on the arms, indicating it was not used.

The carving is good, better than tourist. I wonder if it could be something else? Maybe some kind of altar figure? For one thing it has a very good base and stands up well. None of the other slingshots / catapults I have seen will stand up.

The "Y" shape is common in many religions from the Naga in India to the Dayak, to PNG. Though most of these "Y's" are naturaly occuring tree shapes, some have been carved (like mne) to protray that shape.

Though my piece is purported (who ever really knows?) to have come from an old collection, the collector died without cataloging this piece, so the guy who was liquidating the estate made up his own description.

Tim Simmons · 7th January 2007, 08:31 PM

Yes good point about the "Y" shape house posts and other artifacts. The heads are not looking at the target or the user if it is a sling shot. The neck parts do look like something went there.

katana · 7th January 2007, 10:15 PM

Hi Bill, many of the carved Baule catapults I have seen seem to no wear marks around the forked sections, suggesting that they were never equiped with 'bands' .....further suggesting that these seem to be made for the tourists as decorative items.

Your SEA example , IMHO is not a functional catapult......the 'handle' looks too bulky to comfortably hold and (as you have mentioned) has a 'base plate' which seems to indicate that it should be stood. The 'heads' on each the end of the 'fork' do not seem to be a good design to tie/fix any form of 'banding'. I wondered whether it could be a weaving tool, as Tim has also mentioned, but can only find examples of 'heddle' (which has already been discounted as it has no holes which would be where a spool would be fixed.)

I am beginning to think that you are right, that this carving, with all its symbolism and iconography is something more spiritual.
Would it be unreasonable to suggest that something might have been held in the 'V'. If you had two ....... a spear, blowpipe or sword would look great 'nestled' in the stands......perhaps the carved heads looking away were to keep evil spirits away from your weapon.......

Perhaps if the iconography could be 'translated' ....it's use or function may become more clear. Either way it's a very nice piece.

6th January 2007, 10:46 PM	#1
Pangeran Datu Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 79	G'day All, I've become a bit confused by this thread. I have always believed that SLINGSHOTS and CATAPAULTS were two different types of implements, the former requiring only a sling and the latter requiring some form of device for instant propulsion. In my experience, hand-held catapaults in the Malay Archipelago (until the late '50s , anyway) were basically of two types: - Y-prong: fashioned from a naturally-occuring branch of a tree, or one fashioned from a block of wood. The 'elastics' of the sling were fixed to the verticals. - A block of wood carved into a handle with extra length above the grip of the same dimensions as the grip. On this extra length was 'gouged'/carved a small prong to fix the 'elastics' of the sling. Generally, the more skillful one was, the smaller the Y-prong, the second type having the smallest prong of all. The 'elastic' was usually an inner tyre tube, cut to suit. I have never seen an adult use one of these implements, since there were countless alternatives for them. There were basically two methods of launching the projectile: - aiming at the target in a straight-line motion. ( This method has caused many accidents for the unwary, the projectile hitting the thumb or ricocheting off the 'Y' to hit other parts of the body) - aiming at the target in a 'parabolic' motion. BTW, in the UK in the '50s, metal-frame catapaults were available (the 'Y' looking more like a horseshoe with a handle), usually from a sports stores. I would be most grateful for any elucidation/enlightenment. Cheers.

7th January 2007, 08:31 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Yes good point about the "Y" shape house posts and other artifacts. The heads are not looking at the target or the user if it is a sling shot. The neck parts do look like something went there.

7th January 2007, 10:15 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Bill, many of the carved Baule catapults I have seen seem to no wear marks around the forked sections, suggesting that they were never equiped with 'bands' .....further suggesting that these seem to be made for the tourists as decorative items. Your SEA example , IMHO is not a functional catapult......the 'handle' looks too bulky to comfortably hold and (as you have mentioned) has a 'base plate' which seems to indicate that it should be stood. The 'heads' on each the end of the 'fork' do not seem to be a good design to tie/fix any form of 'banding'. I wondered whether it could be a weaving tool, as Tim has also mentioned, but can only find examples of 'heddle' (which has already been discounted as it has no holes which would be where a spool would be fixed.) I am beginning to think that you are right, that this carving, with all its symbolism and iconography is something more spiritual. Would it be unreasonable to suggest that something might have been held in the 'V'. If you had two ....... a spear, blowpipe or sword would look great 'nestled' in the stands......perhaps the carved heads looking away were to keep evil spirits away from your weapon....... Perhaps if the iconography could be 'translated' ....it's use or function may become more clear. Either way it's a very nice piece.