English Sword with Arabic Inscription

tom hyle · 18th February 2005, 01:16 PM

Yeah, extremely vestigial (looks essentiall unusable in "true" wrapped finger fashion, though a finger might be rested upon it; there are, contrary to what many fencing masters teach, a variety of ways of holding smallswords); the clad ricassoe within the shell guard is tiny; 1800-1830 or so? The blade looks markedly similar to that on one of the final (so far...) evolutions of rapier; the lodge sword; a thin, narrow blade of lenticular or flattened-diamond section; very similar in the tip to older smallswords, but perhaps lacking the fortitude at the base to make one entirely comfortable in parrying other, heavier swords (such as sabres/broadswords). Your example is getting toward the vestigial stages of the weapon, though it's still probablywell suited for dueling against a similar sword, and is certainly capable of a very deadly thrust if sharp, though it looks to lack the stiffness of its ancestors.
Is that the foreign writing on the sheild? I wonder about the crescent on the shell; such Muslim symbolism is associated (I don't really know why) with some of the lodges and "societies"; this may actually be an early, transitional lodge sword.

wolviex · 18th February 2005, 03:54 PM

Small-swords of this kind were very popular through the whole 19th century in almost every European country. This one has one very characteristic feature - this are quillons. Most of the smallsword of this time are with one short quillon (sometimes straight, sometiems curved) while the second one is just a knuckle-guard. In your piece we've got two shord quillons and a knuckle-guard. I have seen only two small-sword with similarity to yours. First one was from France, second from Belgium - both from the end of the 19th century. It doesn't seems to me that one of yours is older. There is some dubitancy about your small-sword - but if you could post more photos. What is the blade, I can barely see there is some ornament! Of what material the handle is made - bronze?, brass?, cooper? - on this photos it looks like it could be cast from one of these alloys. This coat-of-arms looks made rather carelessly - it's not good, while it was in whole Europe (or almost whole Europe) important emblem for noblemen. Where from do you know it's English sword ? - I know - too many questions, but we all here need as much concrete informations as it's only possible, to be able comment anything.

Best regards

ariel · 18th February 2005, 07:51 PM

You mean the squiggles on the chevron (or whatever this diagonal strip is called)?
I must be going blind, but I do not see any Arabic lettering there.

wolviex · 18th February 2005, 11:48 PM

And yes - there were small-swords with such quillons used in England. But there are still questions...

mykeris · 19th February 2005, 12:37 AM

Thanks. I `ll post more photos of this sword.

Justin · 19th February 2005, 02:08 AM

Nice smallsword,I have always loved these swords, it looks to be pretty nice.I was surfing around on the net and found this check out the second smallsword on this page:

http://home.comcast.net/~jtcrosby/Swords2.html

mykeris · 19th February 2005, 04:04 AM

Perhaps, these pictures would help.

18th February 2005, 01:16 PM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Yeah, extremely vestigial (looks essentiall unusable in "true" wrapped finger fashion, though a finger might be rested upon it; there are, contrary to what many fencing masters teach, a variety of ways of holding smallswords); the clad ricassoe within the shell guard is tiny; 1800-1830 or so? The blade looks markedly similar to that on one of the final (so far...) evolutions of rapier; the lodge sword; a thin, narrow blade of lenticular or flattened-diamond section; very similar in the tip to older smallswords, but perhaps lacking the fortitude at the base to make one entirely comfortable in parrying other, heavier swords (such as sabres/broadswords). Your example is getting toward the vestigial stages of the weapon, though it's still probablywell suited for dueling against a similar sword, and is certainly capable of a very deadly thrust if sharp, though it looks to lack the stiffness of its ancestors. Is that the foreign writing on the sheild? I wonder about the crescent on the shell; such Muslim symbolism is associated (I don't really know why) with some of the lodges and "societies"; this may actually be an early, transitional lodge sword. Last edited by tom hyle; 18th February 2005 at 02:49 PM.

19th February 2005, 04:04 AM	#7
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Perhaps, these pictures would help. Attached Images

18th February 2005, 03:54 PM	#2
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Small-swords of this kind were very popular through the whole 19th century in almost every European country. This one has one very characteristic feature - this are quillons. Most of the smallsword of this time are with one short quillon (sometimes straight, sometiems curved) while the second one is just a knuckle-guard. In your piece we've got two shord quillons and a knuckle-guard. I have seen only two small-sword with similarity to yours. First one was from France, second from Belgium - both from the end of the 19th century. It doesn't seems to me that one of yours is older. There is some dubitancy about your small-sword - but if you could post more photos. What is the blade, I can barely see there is some ornament! Of what material the handle is made - bronze?, brass?, cooper? - on this photos it looks like it could be cast from one of these alloys. This coat-of-arms looks made rather carelessly - it's not good, while it was in whole Europe (or almost whole Europe) important emblem for noblemen. Where from do you know it's English sword ? - I know - too many questions, but we all here need as much concrete informations as it's only possible, to be able comment anything. Best regards

18th February 2005, 07:51 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	You mean the squiggles on the chevron (or whatever this diagonal strip is called)? I must be going blind, but I do not see any Arabic lettering there.

18th February 2005, 11:48 PM	#4
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	And yes - there were small-swords with such quillons used in England. But there are still questions...

19th February 2005, 12:37 AM	#5
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Thanks. I `ll post more photos of this sword.

19th February 2005, 02:08 AM	#6
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 182	Nice smallsword,I have always loved these swords, it looks to be pretty nice.I was surfing around on the net and found this check out the second smallsword on this page: http://home.comcast.net/~jtcrosby/Swords2.html