Origin of yataghan, shashka etc

Jim McDougall · 25th December 2006, 09:19 PM

It seems I have heard this theory before some years ago with regard to the yataghan hilt, associated to the shape of a sheeps thigh bone or something to that effect. I cannot recall exactly whether the association had to do with the actual shape and recalling the extremely ancient use of animal bones as weapons or whether it might have been the root of a local or colloquial term referring to the distinct hilt shape.
I do very much like the idea that there is an increasing degree of interest in the possibilities of often ancient symbolism or inherent ancestry in certain shapes and decoration or markings that occur on traditional weapons. There are many vestigial features that are seen on weapons that reflect the very basic origins from which they descend. For example, on early Chinese weapons, the bronze cast weapons often included ribs on the hilt grip which reflected the lashings that originally held wood or horn grips to the tang section. This is of course one rudimentary analogy, but there are many other similar instances.

I have not read the Nakov paper, but it sounds very interesting, and I agree with Ariel, we should always give an author credit for thier work, regardless of any inherent flaws or difficulties. I think that errors or flaws can be corrected respectfully in constructive criticism, and that when this course is followed, all parties come out ahead and knowledge is advanced.

It seems that the 'eared' hilts have descended loosely from the early bronze age weapons from Luristan c.10th c. BC and it is unclear exactly what might have inspired that particular feature. Perhaps the distinct anthromorphic hilt forms with stylized outstretched arms may have had some association as they became less recognizable in form?

As always....more research to be done!

Jim

ariel · 26th December 2006, 04:30 AM

Thait "theory" is purely intutiive and we shall never find a a written evidence of it's correctness, After all, can we really hope to interview a Cro-Magnon human to ask him where he got his inspiration from?
This is a pure speculation, but it is so logical and intuitive, that one is just drawn to it.
I like the impertinence of youth

25th December 2006, 09:19 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	It seems I have heard this theory before some years ago with regard to the yataghan hilt, associated to the shape of a sheeps thigh bone or something to that effect. I cannot recall exactly whether the association had to do with the actual shape and recalling the extremely ancient use of animal bones as weapons or whether it might have been the root of a local or colloquial term referring to the distinct hilt shape. I do very much like the idea that there is an increasing degree of interest in the possibilities of often ancient symbolism or inherent ancestry in certain shapes and decoration or markings that occur on traditional weapons. There are many vestigial features that are seen on weapons that reflect the very basic origins from which they descend. For example, on early Chinese weapons, the bronze cast weapons often included ribs on the hilt grip which reflected the lashings that originally held wood or horn grips to the tang section. This is of course one rudimentary analogy, but there are many other similar instances. I have not read the Nakov paper, but it sounds very interesting, and I agree with Ariel, we should always give an author credit for thier work, regardless of any inherent flaws or difficulties. I think that errors or flaws can be corrected respectfully in constructive criticism, and that when this course is followed, all parties come out ahead and knowledge is advanced. It seems that the 'eared' hilts have descended loosely from the early bronze age weapons from Luristan c.10th c. BC and it is unclear exactly what might have inspired that particular feature. Perhaps the distinct anthromorphic hilt forms with stylized outstretched arms may have had some association as they became less recognizable in form? As always....more research to be done! Jim

26th December 2006, 04:30 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thait "theory" is purely intutiive and we shall never find a a written evidence of it's correctness, After all, can we really hope to interview a Cro-Magnon human to ask him where he got his inspiration from? This is a pure speculation, but it is so logical and intuitive, that one is just drawn to it. I like the impertinence of youth