Hello Everyone, new to the board

capt.smash · 24th December 2006, 01:52 PM

Hello Paul welcome to the forums i realy hope people can help you with this interesting subject.Haveing seen an example of your work i can testify it is of the finest quality and i know you would greatly apreciate ANY help no matter how small in your persuit of knowledge in your craft.

pbinns · 24th December 2006, 02:09 PM

Thanks Matey, I look forward to it, dont ask dont get as they say. Actually, all this asiatic/Indian stuff has brought to the fore a forgotton childhood interest of mine.

Anyone seen "The man who would be king " by Bro Rudyard Kipling ? the 1975 film with Sean Connery and Michael Caine in ???? Plenty of weird curved/straight ethnic bladed weapons in that, what a brilliant strory that is, its normally on here in England over the festive season along with Zulu, another classic.

Thankyou for the warm welcome extended by yourself and Mr Ariel, and have a good one ! regards paul

RhysMichael · 24th December 2006, 02:30 PM

Let me add my welcome. You will find a good group of people here and the depth of their knowledge never fails to keep me in awe

Jim McDougall · 25th December 2006, 08:33 PM

Hello Pbinns,
I'd like to welcome you here also! Its great to hear that you are working on these blades and taking a serious historic approach to your work. Here we very much enjoy discussions that include a wide range of weapons that often exceed the specific ethnographic denominator, and recognize the important relationships that often reflect the influences that have developed between them.
The movies you mention are both excellent films and always enjoy rewatching them. As you note, there are quite a number of fascinating weapons shown in them.
There is an outstanding knowledge base among the many members of the forum here, among which there is a great degree of specialization. I always look forward to the discussions here where we can all share knowledge and data and learn together, so please dont hesitate to bring in any specific questions we might help with.
All the best,
Jim

pbinns · 26th December 2006, 01:58 PM

Thanks Jim,

I appreciate your kind words of support. Actually, doing this pattern welding is addictive.!!

I would be most grateful if you could share with me knowledge of the ferrous materials used at this time and in these weapons. I know the contrast of the core laminates is dependant on trace elements. Low/ high carbon is not good enough and I am really wanting to use some high phosphorous iron together with the regular charcoal iron I can get from a specialist firm here in England. Do you know of any sources ? At the moment I am using L6 as a core contrast with the iron as did the very skilled smith who made the sutton hoo sword for the BM in the mid eighties.

Also your thoughts on the steels and techniques used to make the later Ingelrii type swords would be greatly appreciated, I am thinking of chiseling in the inscription then hammer welding in the small PW twisted rods into the billet, then repeating for the reverse patterns. The fuller is then forged in after. Again, the problem I am thinking is in the actual blade material. Would it be better to make a wrought iron and steel sandwich , or keep with an all steel blade, strongly etched to try to get some grain out of it ?

all the best, and thanks in advance regards paul.

Jim McDougall · 27th December 2006, 04:58 PM

Hi Pbinns,
While I am presently away from resources I would be glad to look into these things shortly. In the meantime I would confess that my knowledge of the metallurgy of these swords is very limited and I would defer on that topic to Lee Jones, who has done considerable work on such study of these swords and written some outstanding material. There are also a number of extremely qualified members who often address metallurgical topics whom I hope will respond.Possibly using search on this site will reveal answers to many of your questions, and hopefully further discussion here will help us all learn more on this fascinating topic. I hope you will keep us posted on progress OK?

All the best,
Jim

Jeff Pringle · 27th December 2006, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Also your thoughts on the steels and techniques used to make the later Ingelrii type swords would be greatly appreciated, I am thinking of chiseling in the inscription then hammer welding in the small PW twisted rods into the billet, then repeating for the reverse patterns. The fuller is then forged in after. Again, the problem I am thinking is in the actual blade material. Would it be better to make a wrought iron and steel sandwich , or keep with an all steel blade, strongly etched to try to get some grain out of it ?

Definitely steel blade, but don't etch it - I bet the originals were polished and the inlay shows up via the different polishing effects on the two or three steels/iron involved. But you can't buff it on a motorized wheel, got to be hand polished.
Are you familiar with Jaap Ypey's articles, he x-rayed many blades during conservation, did very nice drawings of the pattern welding. Also did some metallographic analysis, found on one blade a difference in carbon, but not phosphorus if I recall.
Welcome, and may all your welds weld well

24th December 2006, 01:52 PM	#1
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	Hello Paul welcome to the forums i realy hope people can help you with this interesting subject.Haveing seen an example of your work i can testify it is of the finest quality and i know you would greatly apreciate ANY help no matter how small in your persuit of knowledge in your craft.

24th December 2006, 02:09 PM	#2
pbinns Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 10	Thanks Matey, I look forward to it, dont ask dont get as they say. Actually, all this asiatic/Indian stuff has brought to the fore a forgotton childhood interest of mine. Anyone seen "The man who would be king " by Bro Rudyard Kipling ? the 1975 film with Sean Connery and Michael Caine in ???? Plenty of weird curved/straight ethnic bladed weapons in that, what a brilliant strory that is, its normally on here in England over the festive season along with Zulu, another classic. Thankyou for the warm welcome extended by yourself and Mr Ariel, and have a good one ! regards paul

24th December 2006, 02:30 PM	#3
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Let me add my welcome. You will find a good group of people here and the depth of their knowledge never fails to keep me in awe

25th December 2006, 08:33 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Hello Pbinns, I'd like to welcome you here also! Its great to hear that you are working on these blades and taking a serious historic approach to your work. Here we very much enjoy discussions that include a wide range of weapons that often exceed the specific ethnographic denominator, and recognize the important relationships that often reflect the influences that have developed between them. The movies you mention are both excellent films and always enjoy rewatching them. As you note, there are quite a number of fascinating weapons shown in them. There is an outstanding knowledge base among the many members of the forum here, among which there is a great degree of specialization. I always look forward to the discussions here where we can all share knowledge and data and learn together, so please dont hesitate to bring in any specific questions we might help with. All the best, Jim

26th December 2006, 01:58 PM	#5
pbinns Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 10	Thanks Jim, I appreciate your kind words of support. Actually, doing this pattern welding is addictive.!! I would be most grateful if you could share with me knowledge of the ferrous materials used at this time and in these weapons. I know the contrast of the core laminates is dependant on trace elements. Low/ high carbon is not good enough and I am really wanting to use some high phosphorous iron together with the regular charcoal iron I can get from a specialist firm here in England. Do you know of any sources ? At the moment I am using L6 as a core contrast with the iron as did the very skilled smith who made the sutton hoo sword for the BM in the mid eighties. Also your thoughts on the steels and techniques used to make the later Ingelrii type swords would be greatly appreciated, I am thinking of chiseling in the inscription then hammer welding in the small PW twisted rods into the billet, then repeating for the reverse patterns. The fuller is then forged in after. Again, the problem I am thinking is in the actual blade material. Would it be better to make a wrought iron and steel sandwich , or keep with an all steel blade, strongly etched to try to get some grain out of it ? all the best, and thanks in advance regards paul.

27th December 2006, 04:58 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Hi Pbinns, While I am presently away from resources I would be glad to look into these things shortly. In the meantime I would confess that my knowledge of the metallurgy of these swords is very limited and I would defer on that topic to Lee Jones, who has done considerable work on such study of these swords and written some outstanding material. There are also a number of extremely qualified members who often address metallurgical topics whom I hope will respond.Possibly using search on this site will reveal answers to many of your questions, and hopefully further discussion here will help us all learn more on this fascinating topic. I hope you will keep us posted on progress OK? All the best, Jim