First Westerner to the Philippines?

[LabanTayo]

mark,
thanks for the info. time for me to do some research.

[MABAGANI]

Originally Posted by LabanTayo

some research.

Search outside what is considered history by the conquerors, tradition has it that natives knew of and fought Europeans before Magellan's arrival, but its repeated over and over again that he was first, so should the claim stick? or should it read something like first "recorded" landing? caveat, which perspective do we take as truth?

[Mark]

Originally Posted by MABAGANI

Search outside what is considered history by the conquerors, tradition has it that natives knew of and fought Europeans before Magellan's arrival, but its repeated over and over again that he was first, so should the claim stick? or should it read something like first "recorded" landing? caveat, which perspective do we take as truth?

Yes, absolutely. It's probably safest to say that Megallan was the earliest documented (in the West) European there. It isn't hard to believe that someone got there earlier, even much earlier, particularly an individual trader/mercenary or small group of such, as there was so much trade between Europe and Asia, going back centuries, by all kinds or routes. It's not like people in Europe didn't know "The East" existed.

On the other hand, even "documented" travels are not especially reliable. Marco Polo describes the kingdom of Burma in some detail, as if from first-hand observation, but it is widely agreed that he never actually went there. Sir John de Mandeville was another medieval travellor who claimed to have gone all over Asia but is believed to have gone only as far as India, or perhaps Java, getting most of his written account second-hand (he is one of the guys who described visiting places inhabited by one-footed people, cannibals with tails, men with no heads and their faces in their chests, giant birds, unicorns, and so forth and so forth). It is hard to separate truth from fiction (maybe the unicorn was a rhino, or maybe he made it up).

Sometimes if what you are looking for is a definite date, such as that of the arrival of the "first" European, you have to settle for the first documented date, or for a date that is "at least as early as" a well-documented date. For a long time Columbus was considered the "first" European to have arrived in the Western hemisphere, even though Viking sagas describe Leif Erkisson as having arrived a few hundred years earlier. This was considered legend or fiction until archeological evidence of a Viking settlement in Newfoundland, Canada, confirmed it. There are theories of even earlier contact, based oral traditions (native or visitor) or tid-bits of physical evidence, but they are not yet regarded as reliable fact because they haven't been satisfactorily verified in some objective way. So, was Eriksson or Columbus, or someone else, "first?" Eriksson got there earlier, but Columbus was the first to create a lasting contact. Eriksson has the earliest verified arrival date, Columbus the first documented (i.e., in writing) arrival date. Any number of peoples (Celts, Phoecians, Egyptions, Chinese, etc., etc.) are possible earlier arrivers, but there isn't enough firm proof to establish if, and when, they did arrive.

It really depends on what you mean by "first" and what significance you attach to it, what is the point you are trying to make.

[MABAGANI]

Ironically, in the HOS timeline the Magellan landing got highlighted, when the leader Lapu Lapu won the battle with native weaponry, the focus of the exhibit and of interest.
I recall in a study of Magellan, his contemporaries other mercenaries had prior knowledge of the region from which he was able to use to route his journey. -vast subject and off topic.
Lapu Lapu, appears in Moro tradition and was linked back to their history.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by MABAGANI

when the leader Lapu Lapu won the battle with native weaponry, the focus of the exhibit and of interest.
I recall in a study of Magellan, his contemporaries other mercenaries had prior knowledge of the region from which he was able to use

Lapu Lapu did not win the battle with native weaponry, at least in Pigafetta's account. Lapu Lapu would not engage untill most of Magellans men were already aboard boats. The men were in armor & the boats could not come to shore because of the rocky coast, Magellan covered the retreat. You may want to do a search on Enrique, Magellan's slave. He was either from Malacca or was a Cebuano depending who you want to read. Most likely he was the source, about the PI, for Magellan.

[MABAGANI]

I stated Lapu Lapu and his warriors (see original post and don't take it out of context), not Lapu Lapu himself, last i read he was struck in the leg and cut down with a sword...who actually killed him no one could know, did he lose the battle to Lapu Lapu? Yes
Did they use native weaponry? Yes, again who could actually say what type.
There was a translated list of native weaponry.
Magellan with his arrogant overconfidence in what he perceived as superiority in arms and combat, underestimated Lapu Lapu who had knowledge of the terrain and his enemies fighting ability, easily overwhelmed the opposition with his loyal warriors.

I've read the accounts of Enrique too who may have actually been the first human to circumnavigate the world, but do Malay/slaves count?

[Spunjer]

when cato's book came out, it became the bible of every moro sword collectors. it was regarded as the most accurate book when it comes to moro weapons. as time go by, it was questioned on some of its claims, as one can read on the earlier version of this forum. now, we know some of the claims in that book is just not true. the point is, it was challenged, regardless of how thorough cato research this massive project, as far as travelling all over the world. but still, we questioned it, and the truth was revealed.


it's good to question these so called documents from time to time. just because common knowledge states such and such, it doesn't mean it's the fact.

lapulapu's exploit might not mean much to a lot of you, but since he and his warriors used bladed weapons to beat magellan, i believe that's relevant to this forum. btw, how many of you are aware that there are strong evidence rajah (or rajiki) lapulapu was a moro? what does that got to do with anything? well, now it makes more sense when pigafetta mentioned that the natives were using campilanes, don't it?



edited for spelling....