Dayak Iban body armor?

Dajak · 27th November 2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Hi Ben,

Or did the Iban wear jackets like these strictly for modesty or decoratiive social outings?

I think that it is also for social and ritual outings

Ben

VANDOO · 27th November 2006, 05:10 PM

NICE JACKET!! FROM WHAT LITTLE I KNOW ABOUT IKATS (THE PATTERNS AND STYLE OF WEAVING ,COLORS ECT ALL HAVE SPECIAL MEANINGS AND CAN BE INTENDED TO BRING LUCK, PROTECT FROM EVIL SPIRITS,BRING WEALTH ,DENOTE STATUS IDENTIFY A TRIBE OR GROUP AND MANY OTHER PURPOSES. SOME DYES AND PATTERNS WERE ONLY ALLOWED TO BE OWNED OR WORN BY CERTIAN PEOPLE OR AT CERTIAN CEREMONYS. THESE BELIEFS ARE MOSTLY IN THE PAST NOW AND ONLY IMPORTANT TO THOSE WHO SELL,MAKE OR COLLECT IKATS TODAY. NOT BEING A IKAT COLLECTOR EXCEPT FOR DECOR I KNOW VERY LITTLE BUT THERE ARE MANY SERIOUS COLLECTORS OUT THERE AND IKATS ARE JUST AS COMPLICATED AS WEAPONS PERHAPS MORE SO. I WOULD NOT CLASSIFY THE GARMENTS AS ARMOR BUT THEY MAY SHOW STATUS OR HAVE TAILSMANIC PROPERTIES

Dajak · 27th November 2006, 06:49 PM

Hi Vandoo it is no ikat Iban call it pua when the Ibans came home with the heads their woman stand already with the Pua to put the heads in it

see pic

Dajak · 27th November 2006, 06:50 PM

Hi Bill here some dajaks with war cloth

VANDOO · 28th November 2006, 06:35 AM

IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE DAYAK MAY HAVE ADOPTED SOME FORM OF ARMOR FROM THE MORO TRADERS AND PIRATES. I HAVE SEEN SOME EXAMPLES MADE OF BONE OR HORN PLATES MUCH LIKE THE ONES COMING FROM THE PHILIPPINES COME FROM BORNEO.
THERE MAY ALSO HAVE BEEN A LIGHT KIND OF ARMOR CAPABLE OF TURNING A BLOWGUN DART IF THEY WERE USED IN WARFARE OR FOR AMBUSH

AS ACCURATE AS THE DAYAK WERE WITH THE BLOWGUN I DOUBT ANYTHING LESS THAN FULL COVERAGE WOULD WORK, SO I DOUBT IT EXHISTED FOR BLOWGUN PROTECTION.
I WILL INCLUDE SOME PICTURES OF A CEREMONIAL EXAMPLE FROM BORNEO AS WELL AS TWO FROM TORAJA.

VANDOO · 28th November 2006, 06:42 AM

TORAJA DIDN'T COME THRU SO I WILL TRY AGAIN.

Bill M · 28th November 2006, 12:30 PM

Thanks for the posts VANDOO and Dajak.

My point in posting this jacket originally was to say that weapons come in all different arenas. Sure a textile - shirt / war jacket would not be very effiective at stopping a club, bullet, arrow, blowgun, sword or spear.

But maybe that was not what it was about -- originally.

And I am sure that the Dayak did not go to the trouble to carefully weave certain patterns to make themselves look pretty on social occasions. They were very serious about these jackets offering some kind of protection when they went on raids and hunting expiditions.

It would have been a very bad thing to go head hunting and wind up with your head in someone else's longhouse, wrapped in one of their pua!

So some warrior's woman had a dream, wove a pattern and made her man this jacket over a hundred years ago. Maybe he went hunting and came back safely. Maybe they thought his success was related to the jacket. Maybe they thought it made him invisible to his enemies, both physical and also spritual.

I feel strongly that we miss a lot of the importance and richness of these cultures by NOT studying other aspects of the cultures besides sharp pointy metal --- even though I find the traditional weapons of steel to be fascinating.

Certainly we have different beliefs. I would not put a lot of faith in a jacket like this to protect me from someone hunting me with a sharp pointy weapon.

But they did.

And I suggest that if you or I were out in the jungles of Borneo, in the dark, with growly creatures around, and we did not have access to Kevlar, a little hand-woven jacket like this might make us feel a little better.

I am sure that it made the original owner feel better a hundred years ago and maybe it did more than just make him feel better........

27th November 2006, 06:49 PM	#3
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Vandoo it is no ikat Iban call it pua when the Ibans came home with the heads their woman stand already with the Pua to put the heads in it see pic Attached Images

27th November 2006, 06:50 PM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Bill here some dajaks with war cloth Attached Images

28th November 2006, 06:35 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE DAYAK MAY HAVE ADOPTED SOME FORM OF ARMOR FROM THE MORO TRADERS AND PIRATES. I HAVE SEEN SOME EXAMPLES MADE OF BONE OR HORN PLATES MUCH LIKE THE ONES COMING FROM THE PHILIPPINES COME FROM BORNEO. THERE MAY ALSO HAVE BEEN A LIGHT KIND OF ARMOR CAPABLE OF TURNING A BLOWGUN DART IF THEY WERE USED IN WARFARE OR FOR AMBUSH AS ACCURATE AS THE DAYAK WERE WITH THE BLOWGUN I DOUBT ANYTHING LESS THAN FULL COVERAGE WOULD WORK, SO I DOUBT IT EXHISTED FOR BLOWGUN PROTECTION. I WILL INCLUDE SOME PICTURES OF A CEREMONIAL EXAMPLE FROM BORNEO AS WELL AS TWO FROM TORAJA. Attached Images

28th November 2006, 06:42 AM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	TORAJA DIDN'T COME THRU SO I WILL TRY AGAIN. Attached Images

27th November 2006, 05:10 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NICE JACKET!! FROM WHAT LITTLE I KNOW ABOUT IKATS (THE PATTERNS AND STYLE OF WEAVING ,COLORS ECT ALL HAVE SPECIAL MEANINGS AND CAN BE INTENDED TO BRING LUCK, PROTECT FROM EVIL SPIRITS,BRING WEALTH ,DENOTE STATUS IDENTIFY A TRIBE OR GROUP AND MANY OTHER PURPOSES. SOME DYES AND PATTERNS WERE ONLY ALLOWED TO BE OWNED OR WORN BY CERTIAN PEOPLE OR AT CERTIAN CEREMONYS. THESE BELIEFS ARE MOSTLY IN THE PAST NOW AND ONLY IMPORTANT TO THOSE WHO SELL,MAKE OR COLLECT IKATS TODAY. NOT BEING A IKAT COLLECTOR EXCEPT FOR DECOR I KNOW VERY LITTLE BUT THERE ARE MANY SERIOUS COLLECTORS OUT THERE AND IKATS ARE JUST AS COMPLICATED AS WEAPONS PERHAPS MORE SO. I WOULD NOT CLASSIFY THE GARMENTS AS ARMOR BUT THEY MAY SHOW STATUS OR HAVE TAILSMANIC PROPERTIES

28th November 2006, 12:30 PM	#7
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Thanks for the posts VANDOO and Dajak. My point in posting this jacket originally was to say that weapons come in all different arenas. Sure a textile - shirt / war jacket would not be very effiective at stopping a club, bullet, arrow, blowgun, sword or spear. But maybe that was not what it was about -- originally. And I am sure that the Dayak did not go to the trouble to carefully weave certain patterns to make themselves look pretty on social occasions. They were very serious about these jackets offering some kind of protection when they went on raids and hunting expiditions. It would have been a very bad thing to go head hunting and wind up with your head in someone else's longhouse, wrapped in one of their pua! So some warrior's woman had a dream, wove a pattern and made her man this jacket over a hundred years ago. Maybe he went hunting and came back safely. Maybe they thought his success was related to the jacket. Maybe they thought it made him invisible to his enemies, both physical and also spritual. I feel strongly that we miss a lot of the importance and richness of these cultures by NOT studying other aspects of the cultures besides sharp pointy metal --- even though I find the traditional weapons of steel to be fascinating. Certainly we have different beliefs. I would not put a lot of faith in a jacket like this to protect me from someone hunting me with a sharp pointy weapon. But they did. And I suggest that if you or I were out in the jungles of Borneo, in the dark, with growly creatures around, and we did not have access to Kevlar, a little hand-woven jacket like this might make us feel a little better. I am sure that it made the original owner feel better a hundred years ago and maybe it did more than just make him feel better........