Review of "Arms and Armour from Iran" by M. Khorasani

Ann Feuerbach · 23rd November 2006, 05:31 PM

Thank you. For my Alani etc info I ask my good friend Irina Arzhansteva, I want her to translate and publish her PhD (Moscow?). It was on the sword styles of Central Asia, she knows so much and has published so little on it.

Rivkin · 23rd November 2006, 05:39 PM

In my experience getting Ph.D. dissertation copied from Russia is a royal pain until you establish a contact with a secretary/someone working in the library or so. You send them money and they scan it for you; working with department chairs or other high ranking people unfortunately does not work (at least did not work for me). It is a pity that there is a sea of works on early sabres (how can I not mention Gorelik, Kirpichnikov or literally dozens of others), but how much is translated ? Close to zero - a few works here, a few works there. I have approximately half of Kaminsky's review papers (unfortunately these ones are _really_ short reviews) scanned, so I can easily put them here (I am sure he would not mind). I do have some of this Ph.D. thesises also in a scanned version, however I would warn that some of them are not of top quality. They have a lot of new information, but you have to distill it from 200 pages.

Rivkin · 23rd November 2006, 06:38 PM

Btw is there a chanse of getting Dr. Arzhntzeva's thesis ? I promise my best behavior

. I am slightly confused - is it on alans or on central asian swords/sabres, or on both ? What I mean - alans of which time period are in this thesis ?

Ian · 24th November 2006, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivkin

I have approximately half of Kaminsky's review papers (unfortunately these ones are _really_ short reviews) scanned, so I can easily put them here (I am sure he would not mind). I do have some of this Ph.D. thesises also in a scanned version, however I would warn that some of them are not of top quality. They have a lot of new information, but you have to distill it from 200 pages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Fuerbach

For my Alani etc info I ask my good friend Irina Arzhansteva, I want her to translate and publish her PhD (Moscow?). It was on the sword styles of Central Asia, she knows so much and has published so little on it.

Rivkin and Dr Ann:

I would suggest sending Lee Jones a PM about possibly posting scanned works here that are difficult to find. There may be some legal issues of copyright, etc. that need to be worked out. I can't speak for Lee, however I think he would give your idea some serious consideration.

I also believe that we have a couple of native Russian speakers who are active members of this forum, and they might be able/willing to assist in translating key passages.

Without hijacking the present thread, could I suggest that we take this interesting idea to a new thread.

ian.

Rivkin · 3rd December 2006, 04:35 AM

Since no argument was presented, I will try to conclude this story as I see it.

The study of weapons is a somewhat off-mainstread topic. The study of non-japanese and non-military patterns also requires navigation among the sea of rumors, incomplete information, old and new fakes and semi-fakes. Little should be presented as "truth", and the same research can be seen quite differently by different people.

Today, since reading Manoucher's book has influenced me to read a lot of papers and to speak with many people in the past two weeks, I think differently about my review than I did so mere two weeks ago. I would've soften some of the criticism in this review, but I would've also put a bigger accent on some other "issues". My conclusion remains the same - it is a good book, and the author did a good job distilling the information concerning Persian weapons from other books, while combining it with an extremely valuable opportunity for us to see the weapons from Iranian collections. I am thankful for this. However the research provided in this book is questionable. I do recommend it to everyone who is interested in Persian weaponry.

P.S. Just to give you some idea concerning how hard it is to collaborate with other researchers to get any reliable information, one of high level employees at a very good museum, which I visited many times in my life, has answered me publicly that he does not collaborate with "americanos-pedophilos".

tsubame1 · 3rd December 2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivkin

P.S. Just to give you some idea concerning how hard it is to collaborate with other researchers to get any reliable information, one of high level employees at a very good museum, which I visited many times in my life, has answered me publicly that he does not collaborate with "americanos-pedophilos".

Don't bother about what said such a racist fool. They are everywhere...
In Italy we say "the mother of morons is always pregnant..."

Mark · 3rd December 2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivkin

P.S. Just to give you some idea concerning how hard it is to collaborate with other researchers to get any reliable information, one of high level employees at a very good museum, which I visited many times in my life, has answered me publicly that he does not collaborate with "americanos-pedophilos".

I had an experience similar in effect, though very different in substance. I contacted a very well-known academic authority on Southeast Asian archeology, asking if he could recommend reference sources for certain aspects of my research on dha. I received this politely-worded reply:

"As a matter of principle, and in the light of the appalling looting of prehistoric sites in Southeast Asia, I do not correspond with or assist collectors."

No room for argument there, especially since I can't argue with the principle.

It does make it hard to get ahold of the more obscure reference material in the academic literature, though.

23rd November 2006, 06:38 PM	#3
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Btw is there a chanse of getting Dr. Arzhntzeva's thesis ? I promise my best behavior . I am slightly confused - is it on alans or on central asian swords/sabres, or on both ? What I mean - alans of which time period are in this thesis ? Last edited by Rivkin; 23rd November 2006 at 09:36 PM.

3rd December 2006, 04:35 AM	#5
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	2 weeks after Since no argument was presented, I will try to conclude this story as I see it. The study of weapons is a somewhat off-mainstread topic. The study of non-japanese and non-military patterns also requires navigation among the sea of rumors, incomplete information, old and new fakes and semi-fakes. Little should be presented as "truth", and the same research can be seen quite differently by different people. Today, since reading Manoucher's book has influenced me to read a lot of papers and to speak with many people in the past two weeks, I think differently about my review than I did so mere two weeks ago. I would've soften some of the criticism in this review, but I would've also put a bigger accent on some other "issues". My conclusion remains the same - it is a good book, and the author did a good job distilling the information concerning Persian weapons from other books, while combining it with an extremely valuable opportunity for us to see the weapons from Iranian collections. I am thankful for this. However the research provided in this book is questionable. I do recommend it to everyone who is interested in Persian weaponry. P.S. Just to give you some idea concerning how hard it is to collaborate with other researchers to get any reliable information, one of high level employees at a very good museum, which I visited many times in my life, has answered me publicly that he does not collaborate with "americanos-pedophilos".

23rd November 2006, 05:31 PM	#1
Ann Feuerbach Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	Thank you. For my Alani etc info I ask my good friend Irina Arzhansteva, I want her to translate and publish her PhD (Moscow?). It was on the sword styles of Central Asia, she knows so much and has published so little on it.

23rd November 2006, 05:39 PM	#2
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	In my experience getting Ph.D. dissertation copied from Russia is a royal pain until you establish a contact with a secretary/someone working in the library or so. You send them money and they scan it for you; working with department chairs or other high ranking people unfortunately does not work (at least did not work for me). It is a pity that there is a sea of works on early sabres (how can I not mention Gorelik, Kirpichnikov or literally dozens of others), but how much is translated ? Close to zero - a few works here, a few works there. I have approximately half of Kaminsky's review papers (unfortunately these ones are _really_ short reviews) scanned, so I can easily put them here (I am sure he would not mind). I do have some of this Ph.D. thesises also in a scanned version, however I would warn that some of them are not of top quality. They have a lot of new information, but you have to distill it from 200 pages.