Borneo Parang Nabur or Visayan Bolo?

[BSMStar]

Originally Posted by VVV

Let's go back to the sources first. Where does the name Parang Nabur come from and what actually is it?

Stone: "PARANG NABUR. A Malayan sword also used by the Dyaks. It has a short blade curved towards the point, and widest at the point of the curvature. The hilt is generally of bone and has a guard and finger guard of brass or iron."

The Philippines (ethnically) are about 90-95% Malay or Malay "mix"... so I ask, is there a possible connection through the people with a Malay sword? Is it possible that they may have had a Parang Nabur? Is it possible that they adopted this sword profile while making the sword their own? No one has come forward with any examples of this profile on any other Philippine sword.

If the issue is that all Parang Naburs come from Malay or Borneo… therefore, if it come out of the Philippines it can no longer be considered to be a Parang Nabur… I have no debate with that. I think I am in the same “vein” with Tom, that if taken at face value, this is a “bat head Parang Nabur.” The real “secret” is what did the locals call this sword? Indeed, it may have been called by a different name… but what should we call it until we discover the true name for this wonderful sword? And why?

[RhysMichael]

Just to add to the hilt here is a remount of a Japanese bayonet that has the same type of hilt and was attributed to the Phillipines

[Spunjer]

but what should we call it until we discover the true name for this wonderful sword? And why?

what about sonda? why you ask? coz that's the literal translation of the word 'bolo' in Bikolano.

[BSMStar]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

what about sonda? why you ask? coz that's the literal translation of the word 'bolo' in Bikolano.

Hey Spunjer... how about Parang Sonda?

(or is that a double positive? )

[VVV]

Originally Posted by BSMStar

The Philippines (ethnically) are about 90-95% Malay or Malay "mix"... so I ask, is there a possible connection through the people with a Malay sword? Is it possible that they may have had a Parang Nabur? Is it possible that they adopted this sword profile while making the sword their own? No one has come forward with any examples of this profile on any other Philippine sword.

If the issue is that all Parang Naburs come from Malay or Borneo… therefore, if it come out of the Philippines it can no longer be considered to be a Parang Nabur… I have no debate with that. I think I am in the same “vein” with Tom, that if taken at face value, this is a “bat head Parang Nabur.” The real “secret” is what did the locals call this sword? Indeed, it may have been called by a different name… but what should we call it until we discover the true name for this wonderful sword? And why?

It's a pity that the swords from Philippines aren't as well documented as those from Indonesia and Malaysia. Hopefully someone will continue the work of Cato on Moro Swords and also start to collect information about swords from the rest of the Philippines. Maybe then we could find out what this sword, as well as other Filipino swords, originally were called and in what region they were used.

On what inspired the creators of this sword, as well as what in the Western world among collectors is known as a "Parang Nabur", Tim answered it quite clear in his first comment of this sword:

"Yummy, how old is this. It looks as if there is a lot of European hanger influence. Tim"

This Filipino sword as well as the Borneo "Parang Nabur" and the Malay Regalia swords etc. are most likely all inspired by foreign sabres.
That means that the origin of these swords aren't indigenous Malay.

There are to many problems with trying to trace it to the Borneo variation of the foreign sabre. It's all based on a small mistake by Stone in 1934, that then has been quoted by other authors, museum curators and members of this forum, and suddenly a new term, and reference, is invented that actually never existed among the original users of the sword.

If you want to find out what is the specific inspiration for this local variation, which would be very interesting, I assume the best way would be to study the swords of foreign people visiting this area. Probably Spanish swords would be a good start?

Michael

[Dajak]

Maybe the name Parang Nabur comes from the Seadayak parang Niabor
Because in the older days The Iban of the batang Lupar and Saribas in the olden days joined in their large war prahus on pitatical raids along the cost and up certain rivers.
Altough they probably never went out a very great ditance on the sea, by coasting they where able to attack numerous villages round the coast , and they owe their name of SEA DAYAKS to this practice.
The great PIRATICAL FORAYS were orginised by malays , who went for plunder, but they could always induce the Iban to accompany them on the promise that all the heads of the slain should fall to their share.

Don t forget that the Malay must have come to Borneo not lather than the early part off the 15 cht , as Brunei was a large and weahlty town in 1521 .
Probably the Malays came directly from the Malay Peninsula, but most have have mixed largely with the Kadayans, Melanaus and other coastal people.

This all can be read in headhunters from Alfred C Haddon .

So that s why some off these use the parang Nabur too but not whit the muslim indication s like the malay people did.

A picture off An Iban Pirate with an parang Nabur is maybe hard to get but we coul say that the same from the Parang pandat
show me an pic from an Land dayak with an parang pandat.

So till that time we have to believe stone till we can prove that it is not true
he write about the subject.


Junboyll has also some books about the philiphinne weapons

Ben

[kai]

Hello Ben,

Junboyll has also some books about the philiphinne weapons

I must have missed these - could you please post the references? Thanks a lot!

Regards,
Kai

[Dajak]

Katalog des Ethnographischen Reichsmuseums, vol. XX: PHILIPPINEN.
JUYNBOLL, H.H.,
Bookseller: Antiquarianbooksellers GEMILANG
(BREDEVOORT, 0, Netherlands) [Convert Currency]
Quantity: 1 Shipping within Netherlands:
US$ 5.12 (EUR 4.00)
[Rates & Speeds]
Book Description: philippines ethnographica anthropology museum collection reichsmuseum leyden katalog collection. Leiden, Brill, 1928. Large 8 , original wraps. (xviii), 168pp. Numerous ills. on 12 fine plates o.o.t., indexes, registers. Important catalogue describing the Philippine-art collection of the Leyden Ethnogr. Museum. Plates depicting a.o.: basket-work, weavings, arms & armour, woodcarvings, bronze implements, household pieces, dress. Unopened copy, good. One of the rarest issues in the series (tog. 23 vols. publ.). Bookseller Inventory # 9616


Hi Kai von der Molukken ist da auch was von Juynboll auch in deutsch

Ben

[VVV]

Kai,

I have Juynboll's book on Philippines but unfortunately it only covers the weapons in the Leiden museum. This means that most of them are from Sulu, Mindanao (a lot of Bagobo) and some from North Luzon. And only a handful of swords collected in the region around Manila. No blades from South Luzon and the Visayas.
It's quite thin compared to f.i. Borneo and unfortunately not as useful.

Ben,

I have the second edition of Stone's book and in the beginning you can read about him and his life.
Stone was clearly a remarkable man and his work was of high value when he published it and it still is today.
But unlike Haddon, who based his book on his expedition to Borneo in 1898-1899, Stone actually never visited the island.
His descriptions of f.i. Borneo weapons are based on the litterature that is listed in the end of the book. This means that he only had a small percentage of all the information we have today about Borneo weapons to base his book on. And no Internet!
To list all weapons in all times is an impressive task and I find it very surprising that there are so few errors in his work based on the above.

On the Parang Nabur he writes the source of his description openly for the readers to double check.
Which I have quoted so everybody can make their own opinion and contribute to the discussion.

In f.i. Leiden there are 25+ "Parang Nabur" with credible collection notes and collected in SE Borneo.
None that has been collected in NW Borneo!
Of course there is a bias because North Borneo was British and the rest was Dutch at that time. But there are also weapons in the huge Leiden collection, like the Niabor, collected in Sarawak.
Also don't you find it strange that there are no references to this sword in f.i. Shelford, Evans, Brooke etc. where you can find all the other weapons of the inhabitants of the old British part of Borneo?
Why don't we see it in any of the Iban books that has been published after Stone?
I find it quite probable that the authors of those has tried really hard to find this "Sea-Dayak sword" as described in Stone. But it seems as if all of them failed for a reason...

Why?

I think the only conclusion must be that the weapon wasn't in use in that region?

So Ben here is the "Parang Nabur" challenge:

There are 25+ "Parang Nabur" from SE Borneo with collection notes in Leiden alone.
Show me 5 "Parang Nabur" (only 20% of the amount in Juynboll) with proper scientific collection notes originating from Sarawak and a proven age of at least 100 years (no new tourist copies).
If so you will be the new owner of my 114 cm "Parang Nabur".
If you can't do it who can?

Michael

[Dajak]

Originally Posted by VVV

Kai,

I have Juynboll's book on Philippines but unfortunately it only covers the weapons in the Leiden museum. This means that most of them are from Sulu, Mindanao (a lot of Bagobo) and some from North Luzon. And only a handful of swords collected in the region around Manila. No blades from South Luzon and the Visayas.
It's quite thin compared to f.i. Borneo and unfortunately not as useful.

Ben,

I have the second edition of Stone's book and in the beginning you can read about him and his life.
Stone was clearly a remarkable man and his work was of high value when he published it and it still is today.
But unlike Haddon, who based his book on his expedition to Borneo in 1898-1899, Stone actually never visited the island.
His descriptions of f.i. Borneo weapons are based on the litterature that is listed in the end of the book. This means that he only had a small percentage of all the information we have today about Borneo weapons to base his book on. And no Internet!
To list all weapons in all times is an impressive task and I find it very surprising that there are so few errors in his work based on the above.

On the Parang Nabur he writes the source of his description openly for the readers to double check.
Which I have quoted so everybody can make their own opinion and contribute to the discussion.

In f.i. Leiden there are 25+ "Parang Nabur" with credible collection notes and collected in SE Borneo.
None that has been collected in NW Borneo!
Of course there is a bias because North Borneo was British and the rest was Dutch at that time. But there are also weapons in the huge Leiden collection, like the Niabor, collected in Sarawak.
Also don't you find it strange that there are no references to this sword in f.i. Shelford, Evans, Brooke etc. where you can find all the other weapons of the inhabitants of the old British part of Borneo?
Why don't we see it in any of the Iban books that has been published after Stone?
I find it quite probable that the authors of those has tried really hard to find this "Sea-Dayak sword" as described in Stone. But it seems as if all of them failed for a reason...

Why?

I think the only conclusion must be that the weapon wasn't in use in that region?

So Ben here is the "Parang Nabur" challenge:

There are 25+ "Parang Nabur" from SE Borneo with collection notes in Leiden alone.
Show me 5 "Parang Nabur" (only 20% of the amount in Juynboll) with proper scientific collection notes originating from Sarawak and a proven age of at least 100 years (no new tourist copies).
If so you will be the new owner of my 114 cm "Parang Nabur".
If you can't do it who can?

Michael

just start already to make a package Saribas where the pirate s are is north borneo

there is north sarawak dutch say north borneo for them

and north borneo that is british borneo british south borneo is dutch north borneo

so did get the stuf that is in leiden taken from dutch or english people

Don t forget that we are talking about 1850 and not the late 1900

Look at the pic off an iban warrior from 1959
look at the weapon he have

Ben