Indo-Persian knife for comment

RSWORD · 5th December 2004, 03:32 PM

Thanks for posting pics of this beautiful knife. Charles Buttin in "Catalogue De La Collection D'Armes Anciennes" has a knife of same general blade form with hilt of similar angle on item 701, Plate XXII. He identifies that piece as Afghanistan or Bhukara. I would lean towards those regions as possible origins for this knife. The blade is indeed wootz.

ariel · 5th December 2004, 05:10 PM

I agree: Northern Afghanistan/Uzbekistan. The handle has a characteristic form of a "pseudo-shashka" (as per Lebedynsky's definition): eared pommel and widening toward the top (unlike Caucasian shashkas that have almost cylinrical handles).The bolster is very much similar to Khyber or Pesh Kabz. I have 3 Uzbeki shashkas, 2 of them bear stamps of Mazar-i-Sharif arsenal: 2 mosques and cannons. Anything similar here? The "curl" at the back (top) of the blade is vaguely familiar also, but I cannot recall where I saw it.
Very nice find, congratulations!

ariel · 5th December 2004, 05:17 PM

Sorry. pushed the button one time too many....

GuyM · 5th December 2004, 08:10 PM

Wonderful input, thanks to both of you!
Ariel, I can find no marks whatsoever on the blade or the handle, in particular, no Mazar-i-Sharif arsenal stamp.
Does anyone know how this kind of knife is called? Any guess as to its age?

Thanks

spiral · 5th December 2004, 08:56 PM

mmmmm very nice knife!

I had always thought though, that these eared pommel knives{as visible in 2nd. photo} were usualy from the Turkey,Greece or Crete sort of area?

Spiral

Michel · 5th December 2004, 09:05 PM

RSword,

with all due respect, I think that the N°701 of plate XXI of Charles Buttin is really a Pesh Kabz. In his explanation he names it Pich-Qàbz.
I agree with you and Ariel, that knife must come from central Asia.
In the book "bei Shah emir und Khan" discribing the beautiful collection of Henri Moser, page 90, is a knife named "Ptshak". (I will try to join a photo) this is the closest I have found to the knife shown by Guy.
Nowhere have I found a blade with the same curve and cutting on the back and no back reinforcement as the the Pesh Quabz.

Regards
Michel

Ian · 5th December 2004, 09:41 PM

A while back on the old forum I posted pictures of the knife below. The blade shape is similar to the one at the start of this thread, although the hilt is obviously different.

Thoughts then was that my knife was likely from Afghanistan or nearby Central Asia (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, etc.).

Ian.

spiral · 5th December 2004, 10:33 PM

Fascinating! In this picture it shows an eared handle, do you guys realy think thats central asian? I still say Turkish myself.

Here a knife of mine of similar style with an unusual very fine wootz or laminated steel blade.

I think mine is from India or Russia {Bokarra} but still think the featured eared dagger is from further west, but I am just a collector, nothing more.

Always interested to hear others views though.

Spiral

Rick · 5th December 2004, 10:38 PM

A comment on the piece that started this thread :
What an interesting wootz pattern , I cant get over how 'loose' it is ..

5th December 2004, 09:05 PM	#6
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	Kard RSword, with all due respect, I think that the N°701 of plate XXI of Charles Buttin is really a Pesh Kabz. In his explanation he names it Pich-Qàbz. I agree with you and Ariel, that knife must come from central Asia. In the book "bei Shah emir und Khan" discribing the beautiful collection of Henri Moser, page 90, is a knife named "Ptshak". (I will try to join a photo) this is the closest I have found to the knife shown by Guy. Nowhere have I found a blade with the same curve and cutting on the back and no back reinforcement as the the Pesh Quabz. Regards Michel

5th December 2004, 09:41 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,398	A similar provenance (?) A while back on the old forum I posted pictures of the knife below. The blade shape is similar to the one at the start of this thread, although the hilt is obviously different. Thoughts then was that my knife was likely from Afghanistan or nearby Central Asia (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, etc.). Ian. Attached Images

5th December 2004, 10:33 PM	#8
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Fascinating! In this picture it shows an eared handle, do you guys realy think thats central asian? I still say Turkish myself. Here a knife of mine of similar style with an unusual very fine wootz or laminated steel blade. I think mine is from India or Russia {Bokarra} but still think the featured eared dagger is from further west, but I am just a collector, nothing more. Always interested to hear others views though. Spiral Attached Images

5th December 2004, 03:32 PM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Thanks for posting pics of this beautiful knife. Charles Buttin in "Catalogue De La Collection D'Armes Anciennes" has a knife of same general blade form with hilt of similar angle on item 701, Plate XXII. He identifies that piece as Afghanistan or Bhukara. I would lean towards those regions as possible origins for this knife. The blade is indeed wootz.

5th December 2004, 05:10 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I agree: Northern Afghanistan/Uzbekistan. The handle has a characteristic form of a "pseudo-shashka" (as per Lebedynsky's definition): eared pommel and widening toward the top (unlike Caucasian shashkas that have almost cylinrical handles).The bolster is very much similar to Khyber or Pesh Kabz. I have 3 Uzbeki shashkas, 2 of them bear stamps of Mazar-i-Sharif arsenal: 2 mosques and cannons. Anything similar here? The "curl" at the back (top) of the blade is vaguely familiar also, but I cannot recall where I saw it. Very nice find, congratulations!

5th December 2004, 05:17 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Sorry. pushed the button one time too many....

5th December 2004, 08:10 PM	#4
GuyM Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 18	Wonderful input, thanks to both of you! Ariel, I can find no marks whatsoever on the blade or the handle, in particular, no Mazar-i-Sharif arsenal stamp. Does anyone know how this kind of knife is called? Any guess as to its age? Thanks

5th December 2004, 08:56 PM	#5
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	mmmmm very nice knife! I had always thought though, that these eared pommel knives{as visible in 2nd. photo} were usualy from the Turkey,Greece or Crete sort of area? Spiral

5th December 2004, 10:38 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	A comment on the piece that started this thread : What an interesting wootz pattern , I cant get over how 'loose' it is ..