Kirpans not allowed

Emanuel · 17th November 2006, 02:59 AM

Hi Soldier,

I understand your analogy, but the fact remains that a samurai would not be allowed down the street with his swords.

I agree that the fear is not rational. Right now western governments seem to be promoting all kinds of fears in their populations for the sake of gaining more control over them. Have a look at this discussion: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=Knife+Amnesty

Ideally, the host society would indeed learn about the customs of the immigrant group, and the population would learn that a Sikh man wearing his kirpan in public is safe and acceptable. Unfortunately, this brings the issue of precedent: other groups with different motives will argue that they should be given the same right and should be allowed to carry weapons publicly. In the case of an incident, the trouble of uncovering the truth behind one's motive in using the knife would be too much. Thus I think, some governments legitimately outlaw the wear of weapons, especially in a society that already has a specific "caste" with the responsibility of protecting society, namely the police. I do not want to sound offensive here, but perhaps - just perhaps mind you - in western society the wear of the kirpan is simply obsolete, regardless of the wearer's way of life.

This went on quite a bit

but I just wanted to give you a view possibly held by some people in the west.
Since the issue of education came up, I will try to go to the Gurdwara in my neighbourhood and ask some more questions.

Best regards,
Emanuel

Sikh_soldier · 19th November 2006, 09:58 PM

Thanks again Emanuel,

very informative and reasoned sumamry. one last thing to conclude i promise

sikhs have overcome persecution one will never (even myself) be able to imagine, most severe the mughals who tried to wipe out the race alltogether.
To the limit of executing two of our sikh Guru's (religious messengers/guides/prophets)

sikhs survived extinction on numerous occasions with valour with their heritage,customs and culture intact.

For Sikhs, the kirpan and in fact arms in general are equal to the holy scriptures and most revered (worthy of worship) mostly as it can take life and give life (protect/save)

thanks emanuel i will say nothing more on the subject and try to please the other members and moderators with some cool pics.
if you have any questions Emanuel (or anyone) on Sikhism please do not hesitate to ask and i will do my best.(criticism is welcome too)

Emanuel · 19th November 2006, 11:24 PM

Hi _Soldier,

Fair enough, and thanks for the pictures, I love tulwars. Since we're talking about the kirpan, what do old/original examples look like? The blade is essentially a khanjar, but how different or similar are the old ones from the present ones?
Here in Canada, I've seen this variety:

I'll contact you shortly...
Regards,
Emanuel

19th November 2006, 09:58 PM	#2
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Kirpan is good!!! Thanks again Emanuel, very informative and reasoned sumamry. one last thing to conclude i promise sikhs have overcome persecution one will never (even myself) be able to imagine, most severe the mughals who tried to wipe out the race alltogether. To the limit of executing two of our sikh Guru's (religious messengers/guides/prophets) sikhs survived extinction on numerous occasions with valour with their heritage,customs and culture intact. For Sikhs, the kirpan and in fact arms in general are equal to the holy scriptures and most revered (worthy of worship) mostly as it can take life and give life (protect/save) thanks emanuel i will say nothing more on the subject and try to please the other members and moderators with some cool pics. if you have any questions Emanuel (or anyone) on Sikhism please do not hesitate to ask and i will do my best.(criticism is welcome too) Attached Images

17th November 2006, 02:59 AM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Soldier, I understand your analogy, but the fact remains that a samurai would not be allowed down the street with his swords. I agree that the fear is not rational. Right now western governments seem to be promoting all kinds of fears in their populations for the sake of gaining more control over them. Have a look at this discussion: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=Knife+Amnesty Ideally, the host society would indeed learn about the customs of the immigrant group, and the population would learn that a Sikh man wearing his kirpan in public is safe and acceptable. Unfortunately, this brings the issue of precedent: other groups with different motives will argue that they should be given the same right and should be allowed to carry weapons publicly. In the case of an incident, the trouble of uncovering the truth behind one's motive in using the knife would be too much. Thus I think, some governments legitimately outlaw the wear of weapons, especially in a society that already has a specific "caste" with the responsibility of protecting society, namely the police. I do not want to sound offensive here, but perhaps - just perhaps mind you - in western society the wear of the kirpan is simply obsolete, regardless of the wearer's way of life. This went on quite a bit but I just wanted to give you a view possibly held by some people in the west. Since the issue of education came up, I will try to go to the Gurdwara in my neighbourhood and ask some more questions. Best regards, Emanuel

19th November 2006, 11:24 PM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi _Soldier, Fair enough, and thanks for the pictures, I love tulwars. Since we're talking about the kirpan, what do old/original examples look like? The blade is essentially a khanjar, but how different or similar are the old ones from the present ones? Here in Canada, I've seen this variety: I'll contact you shortly... Regards, Emanuel