Markings or Decorations on Mexican Swords

[Matt Branch]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Matt,
I'm glad you have spoken to Juan Perez as he is one of the most knowledgable people I know on Spanish swords, so I am glad that he agrees this blade is, like many of the other triple fuller examples, from Solingen.
As Chamberlain notes in his book, many of these blades were hilted in Mexico with three bar iron hilts in the 1820's and 30's. English hilts seem quite likely, although the three bar hilt became popular with a number of countries during those times. Yours does seem English.

Interesting on the PDL, which certainly seems to represent Luneschloss, who furnished edged weapons for Britain, France, Belgium, Holland and the U.S.- "where Luneschloss supplied both sides during the US Civil War of 1861-65"
("Sword and Bayonet Makers of Imperial Germany 1871-1918", John Walter, 1975, p111-114). This reference notes further, "...quantities of etched and engraved weapons were also marketed alongside cutlery and tableware".

While this reference clearly is assigned in scope to the period after the Civil War, the existing history of the makers prior to that time is discussed briefly.
It should be noted that Luneschloss worked closely with London dealers, much as many German makers had for many years, and that England was of course quite active in supplying Confederate forces. Although the obviously Mexican motif seems misplaced on a sword found in Confederate hands, it does seem as I mentioned, not that surprising given the complexities of supply networking during those wartime years. While most of the Luneschloss blades I have seen were stamped, especially the U.S. examples. On an interesting side note, when the U.S.pattern 1840 cavalry sabres were introduced, the earliest examples were actually German made! until Ames took the contract.

I still am inclined to think that the blade may have been decorated in Germany, it would appear by Luneschloss, and the cursive script may have been because it might have been intended in some diplomatic sense? It is really difficult to say, yet we know where it ended up

Do your records show what location in Tennessee the action took place?
I lived in Nashville for nearly ten years and the history was fascinating, though I didnt really get into it as much as I should have then. It seems all the focus was on the Battle of Stones River (Murfreesboro).

Your blade seems to me full profile, so dont think it is cut down, and it is of course forged steel. The hilts were iron or brass.

All the best,
Jim

The report I have lists Mill Creek as the locationof the skirmish. I don't know if that helps.
Thanks
Best regards
Matt

[Matt Branch]

Hi Jim.
There is an account in the report of a supply train on the way to Murfreesboro being attccked by a force of about 3000 rebels and that they were turned away after having lost 10 killed and 15 wounded and taken prisoner.
That was co's A & D and some other Infantry.
The train my gg grandfather was on and attacked was the Mill Creek, Nashville and Chattanooga and was on it's way to Lavergne.
In the report it states that the Michigan marched 1700 miles in 22 months and that many of the men went barefoot for extended periods.
War is hell.

Do you know of a way to find any Solingen Sword makers that were in business during that era? I have done a lot of searches on Google and Yahoo and have not been succesfull finding any yet.

Thanks again for all you're help!

Regards
Matt

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Matt,
Sorry for the absence, busy week!!
On Solingen makers, one of the best resources would probably be Richard Bezdek's book on German swordsmiths. The one I use is "Sword and Bayonet Makers of Imperial Germany 1871-1918" (John Walter, 1973).

I came across an interesting item in a rather unusually titled book, "Jumbos Hide, Elvis' Ride and Tooth of Buddha" (Harvey Rachlin, N.Y.2000) which sounds like the title for a really, really bad B-movie! Actually the book is an extremely interesting collection of information on historical relics and artifacts that was the basis for the program, "Americas Lost and Found".

On p.152 is an article titled "The Battle Sword of Colonel Najera".
It concerns the Mexican-American War and an unusual 'duel' which took place during battle on Sept. 21,1846 near Monterrey, Mexico. Apparantly Col. John C. Hays (Texas Rangers fame) was challenged by Col. Juan N.Najera of the Jalisco Cavalry (Gen. Manuel Romeros brigade of Lancers). In the combat, where Najera was killed, both men had swords drawn. The sabre was later retrieved and held by Hays' family, eventually ending up in the Gene Autry Museum of Western Heritage near Los Angeles.

The sabre looks remarkably the same as yours, and its blade has the same three fuller blade we have discussed. This is simply further support for the provenance of Mexican sabres from that war becoming property of U.S. forces , many of whom became Confederate officers in later years. The Confederates often even advertised for weapons to add to thier arsenals, from any sources available.

Hope you will find this added information interesting

All the best,
Jim

[Matt Branch]

Hi Jim, nice to hear from you, I will check the local librarys for that book, is there a photo of the sword in the book?
I have looked for German Swords and Sword Makers and no book store has one nor do the librarys within 200 miles of me.
On the thread I posted on the German Language forum on SFI a gentleman directed me to the Klingenmuseum, I have sent them some photos of my sword, they said that they may be able to help me.
I found a teacher at a college in South Dakota who knows the Aragon family in Oaxaca and I sent them an e-mail but have not heard back from them.
The attached photos; my great grandfather's living room around 1885. I hade to scan it to get the picture of my gg grandfather holding the sword and is from the Civil War.
My sword is on top of the piano in the upper left and the picture is on the lower right of the piano.
Thanks again for all of you're help!
Regards
Matt

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Matt,
The title "German Swords and Sword Makers" by Richard H. Bezdek is available on Amazon books.
Outstanding and exciting photos of the sword in your grandfathers possession! It is so remarkable to see one of these swords that is so faultlessly provenanced. Nice follow up research you are doing as well.
There is a photo of the Najera sword in the book, but as always very poor quality. Possibly contacting that museum they will furnish a photo.
Thanks for keeping this going and keeping us up with the research as well as sharing the great photos!
I think your shot of the sword against the clouded sky is a masterpiece!
Pulitzer prize stuff!!
All the best,
Jim

[Matt Branch]

Hi Jim,
Here is the Museum's online image, it is under 2 captions, one says the sword of Lts. Col. Nagera who lost the fight to Hayes. The other says, a presentation sword given to Maj. Hawkins for the defense of Fort Brown.
I'm guessing that the top sword Was Najera's, the hilt is the same as the etched swords on my blade.

I wonder if you have noticed if diffrent bladesmiths shape and size their fullers and ricasso in the same way on all they make, like a signiture, or do they vary due to the technology of the time?

The fullers on my blade stop farther away from the hilt than those on the sword in Spanish Weapons in Colonial...
Just wondering if this may have been a regional or specific makers trait.

Thanks again for all the help.
Best Regards
Matt

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Matt,
The top sword is indeed the Najera sabre, nice work on locating the photo!

Interesting idea about fullering being distinctive to a particular maker. It would seem that in general the forms were very similar in accordance to the technology or popular style at the time. It seems there was always a great deal of innovation and testing being done on swords, ironically much beyond thier being superceded by firearms. There are instances where certain blade forms used key cross section patterns in the work of some makers during certain periods, at least in some research I can recall in studying British cavalry swords, but not with enough consistancy for certainty. I think any variation in the fullers as you mention would be more inclined to deviation in manufacturing process, possibly subcontracted work, as became more often the case in advancing industrialization in centers such as Solingen.

I still think the PDL engraved in script is an interesting anomaly worthy of more research. I am waiting for the Bezdek book myself in hopes there might be something in it concerning that. There is a lot of data published in Germany on the history of Solingen, but without translated material, not very accessible. I know that the journals of the German arms and armour society which go back into the early years of the 20th century have articles on German makers, hopefully the Bezdek book will reference.

All the best,
Jim