Borneo Parang Nabur or Visayan Bolo?

VVV · 13th November 2006, 07:53 PM

Spunjer,

You are correct that the scabbard isn't original.
I removed the rubber rattan and checked.
Sorry for posting it before I had time to go through it properly.

Where do you think this bolo comes from?
No scabbard, with a resembling hilt made of rhino(!?).

Michael

kai · 13th November 2006, 10:48 PM

Hello Michael,

Quote:

Where do you think this bolo comes from?
No scabbard, with a resembling hilt made of rhino(!?).

These nice hilts seem to be all related regardless of some stylistic differences.

Does the horn show the rhino microstructure? I'd have guessed at aged carabao from the pics but you can verify with a magnifying glass...

Regards,
Kai

Spunjer · 14th November 2006, 05:50 AM

michael,

it's really hard to say where it's from. i could guess, but what's the point? this class of swords has been the brown belt sudoku version of the filipino sundangs, or indos for that matter. the jury is still out on this one. like kai said; u sure it's rhino???

VVV · 14th November 2006, 08:24 AM

Hi Kai and Ron,

I only do blackbelt Sudoku boards so that's why I would like to give it a try.

Riddles are supposed to be solved.

So far two forum members has mailed me that they think the last one could be from Bicol.
The only thing I am sure on is that it isn't from Borneo, an area where I feel more comfortable having an opinion about the different sword variations. And that none of the bolos in this thread are Malay Parang Nabur.

On the rhino hilt I don't have the bolo around at the moment.
But Fred, who most of you probably know, described it as rhino when he sold it to me.
I assume he has some experience in evaluating this?
But I also found it strange and will have a closer look at it later this week.
I suggest we ignore that part and focus on the hilt and blade.
Does anyone have any bolo from Bicol that resembles this one?

Michael

BSMStar · 14th November 2006, 01:48 PM

Michael,

The second "Parang Nabur" that you posted... does the hilt appear to have been replaced? The "style" seems a bit different.

VVV · 14th November 2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

Michael,

The second "Parang Nabur" that you posted... does the hilt appear to have been replaced? The "style" seems a bit different.

Not what I can remember.
I don't have the bolo here at the moment.
Only the pictures of it in my computer.
What specifically do you want me to check?

Michael

Ian · 14th November 2006, 02:51 PM

Michael:

I was hoping that some of our Visayan experts would comment on swords of this style, but they have been quiet for some time and it appears that they're not going to reply to your questions.

A Visayan attribution seems unlikely for a couple of reasons. The bat or dog head pommel is not a typical Visayan form (at least not in this representation) -- more commonly seen in S. Luzon (e.g., Batangas). The full length, peened over tang is an unusual construction in the Visayas -- more typical of Luzon. The short octagonal ferrule is more typical of Batangas than Visayas, although that is not a strong distinction IMO. The V-ground blade (rather than a chisel-grind) is unusual in the Visayas -- more common in Luzon and elsewhere. The scabbard has some general features of a Visayan scabbarb, especially from the eastern areas -- the drilled-through "hanger" being common -- but again the style and carving are dissimilar from most Visayan work.

Erik has suggested a Batangas origin. I think S. Luzon is a good guess, and Batangas is one area that deserves consideration. Another is the Bicol region, and it seems that some suggestions about that area have also been offered to you.

If this sword is from the Philippines, and I think it is, then S. Luzon would fit most closely. Batangas or Bicol? I can't take it any further than that I'm afraid. But Visayas seems unlikely.

Ian.

BSMStar · 14th November 2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Not what I can remember.
I don't have the bolo here at the moment.
Only the pictures of it in my computer.
What specifically do you want me to check?

Michael

Michael,

Carefully look at your original sword (D-guard clam shell) and my sword... at the hilts. Also look at the one like yours in the Madrid Museum. The details are amazingly similar.

Look at how they are peened.

Look at the second example that you posted... the detail of the face are a bit more crude (it does not show the same level of craftsmanship)... the peen appears to be a redo. I have seen "modern" Luzon peens that are done the same way, but none of the "original" examples (of this type sword) look like this. But I can not hold the sword in my hand to tell for 100% certain. It is possible that the original hilt was damaged and replaced... which is not a real big deal if true. It is still a great sword!

Also check to see, what is the hilt made from (it should be horn)...

13th November 2006, 07:53 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Spunjer, You are correct that the scabbard isn't original. I removed the rubber rattan and checked. Sorry for posting it before I had time to go through it properly. Where do you think this bolo comes from? No scabbard, with a resembling hilt made of rhino(!?). Michael Attached Images

14th November 2006, 05:50 AM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	michael, it's really hard to say where it's from. i could guess, but what's the point? this class of swords has been the brown belt sudoku version of the filipino sundangs, or indos for that matter. the jury is still out on this one. like kai said; u sure it's rhino???

14th November 2006, 08:24 AM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Kai and Ron, I only do blackbelt Sudoku boards so that's why I would like to give it a try. Riddles are supposed to be solved. So far two forum members has mailed me that they think the last one could be from Bicol. The only thing I am sure on is that it isn't from Borneo, an area where I feel more comfortable having an opinion about the different sword variations. And that none of the bolos in this thread are Malay Parang Nabur. On the rhino hilt I don't have the bolo around at the moment. But Fred, who most of you probably know, described it as rhino when he sold it to me. I assume he has some experience in evaluating this? But I also found it strange and will have a closer look at it later this week. I suggest we ignore that part and focus on the hilt and blade. Does anyone have any bolo from Bicol that resembles this one? Michael

14th November 2006, 01:48 PM	#5
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Michael, The second "Parang Nabur" that you posted... does the hilt appear to have been replaced? The "style" seems a bit different.

14th November 2006, 02:51 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	Michael: I was hoping that some of our Visayan experts would comment on swords of this style, but they have been quiet for some time and it appears that they're not going to reply to your questions. A Visayan attribution seems unlikely for a couple of reasons. The bat or dog head pommel is not a typical Visayan form (at least not in this representation) -- more commonly seen in S. Luzon (e.g., Batangas). The full length, peened over tang is an unusual construction in the Visayas -- more typical of Luzon. The short octagonal ferrule is more typical of Batangas than Visayas, although that is not a strong distinction IMO. The V-ground blade (rather than a chisel-grind) is unusual in the Visayas -- more common in Luzon and elsewhere. The scabbard has some general features of a Visayan scabbarb, especially from the eastern areas -- the drilled-through "hanger" being common -- but again the style and carving are dissimilar from most Visayan work. Erik has suggested a Batangas origin. I think S. Luzon is a good guess, and Batangas is one area that deserves consideration. Another is the Bicol region, and it seems that some suggestions about that area have also been offered to you. If this sword is from the Philippines, and I think it is, then S. Luzon would fit most closely. Batangas or Bicol? I can't take it any further than that I'm afraid. But Visayas seems unlikely. Ian.