LOHAR - Solving The Mistery

Radu Transylvanicus · 1st November 2006, 08:56 PM

I stumbled across two images of Aghani people harvesting ice at the glacier's lip, Vandoo, my friend, this one is for you

http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/image_archi...ceCutters1.jpg
http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/image_archi...ceCutters2.jpg

Bill M · 1st November 2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radu Transylvanicus

I stumbled across two images of Aghani people harvesting ice at the glacier's lip, Vandoo, my friend, this one is for you

http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/image_archi...ceCutters1.jpg
http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/image_archi...ceCutters2.jpg

Don't see any Lohars in your links.

Still seems like someone is joking here. Do you have any pictures, drawings, engravings, etc., of Lohars being used as ice picks?

Enquiring minds want to know!

VANDOO · 2nd November 2006, 04:10 AM

THERE ARE NO LOHAR IN EVIDENCE IN THE PICTURES BUT THE ICE BEING HARVESTED LOOKS MORE LIKE COMPACTED SNOW. A TRADITIONAL ICE PICK RELIES ON THE FRACTURE PLANES IN ICE AND IN THE HANDS OF SOMEONE USED TO USING THEM CAN HANDLE ANY SIZE OF ICE OUTCROPING OR LAKE SURFACE ICE(THE ICE WOULD ALREADY HAVE TO BE REMOVED FROM A LAKE IF IT IS VERY THICK AS A ICE PICK CAN'T DO THAT JOB).

THE LOHAR COULD WORK BETTER FOR CUTTING AND SHAPEING COMPRESSED SNOW AS SNOW WILL NOT FRACTURE SO IN THAT CASE IT WOULD WORK BETTER THAN AN ICE PICK. LOHAR WOULD NOT BE GOOD FOR ICE OR SNOW CLIMBING THOUGH AS THEY HAVE A SHARP EDGE ON THE BOTTOM WHICH WOULD SERVE AS A POOR CLIMBING ANCHOR. THE EDGE WOULD AID IN CUTTING THRU SNOW BY IMBEDDING THE BLADE FULLY AND THEN PULLING IT BACK PERHAPS GOING BACKWARDS TO MAKE A LONG SLICE IF THE SNOW WAS NOT TOO HARD. PERHAPS IT IS ONLY A TOOL OR PERHAPS NOT BUT IT COULD BE USED EFFECTIVELY AS A WEAPON ALSO.

I WONDER WHAT THE LARGE ICE CUTTER IN THE PICTURE LOOKS LIKE UP CLOSE. THEY MAY HARVEST THE SNOW/ICE AS A WATER SOURCE OR TRANSPORT IT TO TOWN TO SELL. AS WITH MOST REASERCH IT ALWAYS SEEMS TO BRING UP MORE QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE JUST GETTING STARTED

MY USE OF ALL CAPITALS DOSEN'T DENOTE EXCITEMENT OR PASSION JUST POOR EYESIGHT ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO COMPUTER SCREENS

katana · 25th November 2006, 03:12 PM

Not quite a Lohar......but an interesting similar weapon from Africa. Seems 'business like' so I don't think it is ceremonial.....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=011

Jim McDougall · 26th November 2006, 12:18 AM

I've been watching this thread with great interest, and Radu, as always comes up with some fascinating perspective on these intriguing weapons and thier modern use. I personally have little doubt that they were indeed once very lethal weapons, probably used in the raiding of camps that it seems was favored as nocturnal activity in Afghan regions. Thier relatively diminutive size seems to run along with so many daggers and weapons that were meant for easy concealment ( obviously the converse applies to the huge khyber knives etc.).

As for their modern use as ice picks.....not surprising at all to see a weapon with strong traditional presence finding a new , more practical use aside from its former one. It seems I've seen so many daggers and knives used as letter openers, remaining certain that these weapons were not originally designed to open letters!

I could go on, with how many bayonets have ended up being garden tools....including (gasp!!) one incredible Caucasian shashka that I was once discussing with its owner by phone. Apparantly his son was in the backyard whacking weeds with it just as I told him how much it was worth !!!

Best regards,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 3rd December 2006, 05:15 PM

I have finally located this sugar hammer. It had been tidied away by my wife, one of the things she calls ornaments

you can take a horse to water

. Anyway as you can see it is jolly impressive and of the same size as the folding lohar. I feel sure that the lohar, small or large is a domestic tool, made to impress at social gatherings and other communal festivities. Sugar and other consumables did and probably still now not come in the easy packaged form we are used to. Sugar breaking apparatus were common in large houses in the west untill the late 19th century. The question is if you have a lohar, how do you feel? Have you paid too much because it is not a weapon or did you really get a bargin for a very nice piece of ethnographic art?

1st November 2006, 08:56 PM	#1
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	I stumbled across two images of Aghani people harvesting ice at the glacier's lip, Vandoo, my friend, this one is for you http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/image_archi...ceCutters1.jpg http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/image_archi...ceCutters2.jpg

2nd November 2006, 04:10 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THERE ARE NO LOHAR IN EVIDENCE IN THE PICTURES BUT THE ICE BEING HARVESTED LOOKS MORE LIKE COMPACTED SNOW. A TRADITIONAL ICE PICK RELIES ON THE FRACTURE PLANES IN ICE AND IN THE HANDS OF SOMEONE USED TO USING THEM CAN HANDLE ANY SIZE OF ICE OUTCROPING OR LAKE SURFACE ICE(THE ICE WOULD ALREADY HAVE TO BE REMOVED FROM A LAKE IF IT IS VERY THICK AS A ICE PICK CAN'T DO THAT JOB). THE LOHAR COULD WORK BETTER FOR CUTTING AND SHAPEING COMPRESSED SNOW AS SNOW WILL NOT FRACTURE SO IN THAT CASE IT WOULD WORK BETTER THAN AN ICE PICK. LOHAR WOULD NOT BE GOOD FOR ICE OR SNOW CLIMBING THOUGH AS THEY HAVE A SHARP EDGE ON THE BOTTOM WHICH WOULD SERVE AS A POOR CLIMBING ANCHOR. THE EDGE WOULD AID IN CUTTING THRU SNOW BY IMBEDDING THE BLADE FULLY AND THEN PULLING IT BACK PERHAPS GOING BACKWARDS TO MAKE A LONG SLICE IF THE SNOW WAS NOT TOO HARD. PERHAPS IT IS ONLY A TOOL OR PERHAPS NOT BUT IT COULD BE USED EFFECTIVELY AS A WEAPON ALSO. I WONDER WHAT THE LARGE ICE CUTTER IN THE PICTURE LOOKS LIKE UP CLOSE. THEY MAY HARVEST THE SNOW/ICE AS A WATER SOURCE OR TRANSPORT IT TO TOWN TO SELL. AS WITH MOST REASERCH IT ALWAYS SEEMS TO BRING UP MORE QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE JUST GETTING STARTED MY USE OF ALL CAPITALS DOSEN'T DENOTE EXCITEMENT OR PASSION JUST POOR EYESIGHT ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO COMPUTER SCREENS

25th November 2006, 03:12 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Not quite a Lohar......but an interesting similar weapon from Africa. Seems 'business like' so I don't think it is ceremonial..... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=011

26th November 2006, 12:18 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	I've been watching this thread with great interest, and Radu, as always comes up with some fascinating perspective on these intriguing weapons and thier modern use. I personally have little doubt that they were indeed once very lethal weapons, probably used in the raiding of camps that it seems was favored as nocturnal activity in Afghan regions. Thier relatively diminutive size seems to run along with so many daggers and weapons that were meant for easy concealment ( obviously the converse applies to the huge khyber knives etc.). As for their modern use as ice picks.....not surprising at all to see a weapon with strong traditional presence finding a new , more practical use aside from its former one. It seems I've seen so many daggers and knives used as letter openers, remaining certain that these weapons were not originally designed to open letters! I could go on, with how many bayonets have ended up being garden tools....including (gasp!!) one incredible Caucasian shashka that I was once discussing with its owner by phone. Apparantly his son was in the backyard whacking weeds with it just as I told him how much it was worth !!! Best regards, Jim

3rd December 2006, 05:15 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	I have finally located this sugar hammer. It had been tidied away by my wife, one of the things she calls ornaments you can take a horse to water . Anyway as you can see it is jolly impressive and of the same size as the folding lohar. I feel sure that the lohar, small or large is a domestic tool, made to impress at social gatherings and other communal festivities. Sugar and other consumables did and probably still now not come in the easy packaged form we are used to. Sugar breaking apparatus were common in large houses in the west untill the late 19th century. The question is if you have a lohar, how do you feel? Have you paid too much because it is not a weapon or did you really get a bargin for a very nice piece of ethnographic art?