Old Tibetan Phurba for comment or information

[Battara]

Welcome Capt D,

Mongolian - hmmm.....if Central Asia I would have thought Bon religion and not Tibetan....if you have any pictures of non-Buddhist Mongolian phurbas that would be great.

[Captain D]

Originally Posted by Battara

Welcome Capt D,

Mongolian - hmmm.....if Central Asia I would have thought Bon religion and not Tibetan....if you have any pictures of non-Buddhist Mongolian phurbas that would be great.

Actually, Bon is the indigenous, pre-Buddhist religion of Tibet. Bon practitioners regard it as being a form of Buddhism that pre-dates Gautama Buddha by tens of millenia. It contains many elements of Central Asian shamanism, one of which is the ritual use of the phurba. I have never seen a Mongolian phurba, neither in person nor in a pic. My conjecture about the subject of this thread being Mongolian is just that: conjecture. However, given the reported extent of the phurba cult across Central Asia, from Delhi, India to Japan, it could be from many places. The key, I think, is in identifying the typology of the non-iconographic carving which covers this unusual piece. Ideally, identifying the wood would be helpful as well. The Mongols adopted Tibetan Buddhism as an official religion many centuries ago. Unfortunately, the Mongolians suffered the same cultural deprivation at the hands of the Chinese that the Tibetans did, and much of the cultural material related to their religious beliefs was destroyed, so I imagine Mongolian phurba, especially wooden ones, to be rare indeed.

[katana]

Hi Captain D,
I totally agree that the iconography is the key.....I have checked many websites in an effort to find matches....the Budhist icons on the 'blade' are fairly well known, it is the 'upper' half of the Phurba which is more unusual.....almost as if the iconography is more specific to the people from where this originated 9as you already summised) The 'crown' at the top is formed by 'plant leaves' or petals but do not seem to be the usual form of a lotus flower, a common icon. If Mongolia is a possibility then this plant crown could be significant...desserts usually have a small number of flowering plants that bloom in unusual conditions (high level of rainfall for instance), it would not be unreasonable to 'postulate' that such a plant would have 'iconic meaning' to them......much like the lotus to Budhists..... worth a try....google here I come........again

[RSWORD]

This thread might be of interest

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2153

Several similar elements as on your piece. While it was quite unusual, I always felt it had some genuine age and wear to it and felt it possible that it had native use and was not something necessarily strictly tourist.

[Captain D]

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Captain D,
I totally agree that the iconography is the key.....I have checked many websites in an effort to find matches....the Budhist icons on the 'blade' are fairly well known, it is the 'upper' half of the Phurba which is more unusual.....almost as if the iconography is more specific to the people from where this originated 9as you already summised) The 'crown' at the top is formed by 'plant leaves' or petals but do not seem to be the usual form of a lotus flower, a common icon. If Mongolia is a possibility then this plant crown could be significant...desserts usually have a small number of flowering plants that bloom in unusual conditions (high level of rainfall for instance), it would not be unreasonable to 'postulate' that such a plant would have 'iconic meaning' to them......much like the lotus to Budhists..... worth a try....google here I come........again

Hi back, Katana,
Actually, I was refering to the non-iconographic elements of the carving as being a key to identifying this piece. The Buddhist symbolism is clear, the question is, what ethnic group is represented by the overall style of the way this piece was carved and of the other, ie. non-Buddhist carved decorations?

[Emanuel]

Hi David,
Very interesting phur-pa. I've ignored these so far, but reading about them has kindled my curiosity..they're fascinating artefacts. I've found a very detailed article on them: The Phur-Pa, Tibetan Ritual Daggers (1975 Huntington, John C.)
Some of the images in the article are somewhat similar to your example. The lotus leaves, the lower triangular blad ena dthe deity head are clear, but the upper part is indeed strange. The deity heads are indicated as being Bon-po...here are the pics, I could send you the article if you wish...it's very large.
All the best,
Emanuel

[Tim Simmons]

Good pictures! Looks like it is a Phurba. The pic on the right although smaller seems to tie up all the lose ends so to speak.

[katana]

Found this image...not very good quality (the picture) but shows a larger Phurba made of wood, more ornately carved but of similar size.