True Combat Value of Wootz

ariel · 29th October 2006, 03:08 PM

Carlo,
All of us are armchair specialists, yourself included (no offence). The age of chivalry is gone, swords are obsolete as weapons and nobody's life depends on the quality of his Katana, Shamshir or Shashka. Some of us still want to feel a small fraction of the thrill of sword wielding and cut empty Coke bottles, styrofoam noodles or green bamboo stalks in what they think is a "keeping of tradition". My kids, when they were little, fought dandelions in the backyard with plastic swords ( I did the same when I was their age

), and I see very little difference in the motivation and the enthusiasm of a 5 year-old with a sword from Toy-R-US in a backyard and a 40 year-old with a custom-made katana in a Dojo. Neither should be embarrassed in the least.
It's just a game, no more.

I would view practical tests that you suggest using an Assadollah's Shamshir or Masamune's Katana as acts of vandalism, akin to testing the durability of Rafael's paints by pouring acid on the canvas. This thread was about examining legends of wootz swords possessing almost magical qualities. We can use contemporary knowledge of metallurgy and what little actual info we have. The old accounts of incredible cutting feats seem to be exaggerated ( as Lee wisely mentioned, they are seen in all cultures, in all times, and are best suited to campfire chats).
We shall never (hopefully!) be so dumb as to plan any practical tests. The money you mentioned is only a minor factor: it is the destruction of the object of art that would hopefully stop us from committing the folly.

Until then, let kids behead dandelions, grown men pretend being samurai or vikings, metalworkers make better and better blades , with Kirk, without Kirk, this hardness, that resilience to cold temperatures, and then all of us can sit in our comfy armchairs with a glass of Grappa or beer and swap stories.

ariel · 29th October 2006, 06:07 PM

BTW, here is an example of what can happen to wootz.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0731&rd=1&rd=1
Look at the very first picture: very big area of delamination.

katana · 29th October 2006, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

BTW, here is an example of what can happen to wootz.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0731&rd=1&rd=1
Look at the very first picture: very big area of delamination.

Hi Ariel, is this the area you are referring to....?

S.Al-Anizi · 29th October 2006, 06:46 PM

That seems like a fatigued edge.

ariel · 29th October 2006, 07:08 PM

That's the one.
BTW, whose signature is in the cartouche?
Another Assadollah?

Jeff D · 29th October 2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

That's the one.
BTW, whose signature is in the cartouche?
Another Assadollah?

Looks like an old weld repair to a chip, probably from cutting cannon barrels

.

Jeff

tsubame1 · 29th October 2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

BTW, here is an example of what can happen to wootz.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0731&rd=1&rd=1
Look at the very first picture: very big area of delamination.

EDIT : I've realized that we're not talking about NihonTo. Ariel are you sure Wootz delaminate ? It's contrary about what I know about it.

tsubame1 · 29th October 2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Carlo,
All of us are armchair specialists, yourself included (no offence).

Yes, the problem is that I wantn't to seem anything more than this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Some of us still want to feel a small fraction of the thrill of sword wielding and cut empty Coke bottles, styrofoam noodles or green bamboo stalks in what they think is a "keeping of tradition". My kids, when they were little, fought dandelions in the backyard with plastic swords ( I did the same when I was their age

), and I see very little difference in the motivation and the enthusiasm of a 5 year-old with a sword from Toy-R-US in a backyard and a 40 year-old with a custom-made katana in a Dojo. Neither should be embarrassed in the least.
It's just a game, no more.

Correct. "The difference between a man and a child is the price of the toys..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I would view practical tests that you suggest using an Assadollah's Shamshir or Masamune's Katana as acts of vandalism,

For sure. I'm still in pain thinking at that Muramasa Tanto in my previous pics.
But it was militarism and trianny that leadd to suc a moronish usage not
the nedd for knowledge.
Artzi will never give you an Assadollah for such a test, for sure, no matter how much you're friends...

I prefer sakè rather then grappa. Chill and preferably by Ozeki factory (it's dry...)

29th October 2006, 03:08 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Carlo, All of us are armchair specialists, yourself included (no offence). The age of chivalry is gone, swords are obsolete as weapons and nobody's life depends on the quality of his Katana, Shamshir or Shashka. Some of us still want to feel a small fraction of the thrill of sword wielding and cut empty Coke bottles, styrofoam noodles or green bamboo stalks in what they think is a "keeping of tradition". My kids, when they were little, fought dandelions in the backyard with plastic swords ( I did the same when I was their age ), and I see very little difference in the motivation and the enthusiasm of a 5 year-old with a sword from Toy-R-US in a backyard and a 40 year-old with a custom-made katana in a Dojo. Neither should be embarrassed in the least. It's just a game, no more. I would view practical tests that you suggest using an Assadollah's Shamshir or Masamune's Katana as acts of vandalism, akin to testing the durability of Rafael's paints by pouring acid on the canvas. This thread was about examining legends of wootz swords possessing almost magical qualities. We can use contemporary knowledge of metallurgy and what little actual info we have. The old accounts of incredible cutting feats seem to be exaggerated ( as Lee wisely mentioned, they are seen in all cultures, in all times, and are best suited to campfire chats). We shall never (hopefully!) be so dumb as to plan any practical tests. The money you mentioned is only a minor factor: it is the destruction of the object of art that would hopefully stop us from committing the folly. Until then, let kids behead dandelions, grown men pretend being samurai or vikings, metalworkers make better and better blades , with Kirk, without Kirk, this hardness, that resilience to cold temperatures, and then all of us can sit in our comfy armchairs with a glass of Grappa or beer and swap stories.

29th October 2006, 06:07 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	BTW, here is an example of what can happen to wootz. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0731&rd=1&rd=1 Look at the very first picture: very big area of delamination.

29th October 2006, 06:46 PM	#4
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	That seems like a fatigued edge.

29th October 2006, 07:08 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	That's the one. BTW, whose signature is in the cartouche? Another Assadollah?