1796 spanish broadsword - hilt ?

Marc · 11th February 2005, 11:18 PM

Wolviex
I wonder if you mean the swords with the so called "boat-shell" hilt ("guarnición de barquilla", in Spanish), they are not exactly what one would call smallswords, they are more of a rapier, morphologically speaking, though as they are typical of the 18th century such definition would be somewhat chronologically problematic.

An example of what I'm talking about:

(Images courtesy of Sala Antiguedades)

They normally feature a quote strong blade, and are associated with a military context.
Spain kept rapiers in use when the rest of Europe had already adopted some time ago the smallsword fashion. For civilian use, since the last years of the 17th century, the rapier was slowly being substituted by the smallsword, but the definitive push was given by the introduction of the Bourbon Dynasty on the Spanish Throne in 1700. Even so, one may find some oddities from that time, like rapier blades with smallsword hilts... and these "boat-shell" hilt swords that seem to had been use for the most part of the 18th century.
This type of hilt, must be said, was used in smallswords, also, with some variations that tended to more delicate lines.
See for example:

(Image courtesy of Armas Don Diego)

I wonder if I'm stretching the "Ethnographic" term, here...

Rick · 11th February 2005, 11:39 PM

" I wonder if I'm stretching the "Ethnographic" term, here... "

Not at all Marc .
Not at all .

Jim McDougall · 12th February 2005, 02:24 AM

Hi Marc,
You're right! It has been a long time since we talked

I'm glad you're still around and especially when you come out of 'lurking'!! You always have a lot to say and as you know, I've always been very admiring of your expertise on Spanish swords. I really do appreciate you addressing the 'bilbo' question as well as noting detail on these other patterns, and the pictures !! beautiful!!!

Seconding Rick's comments, outstanding Marc!

All the best,
Jim

wolviex · 12th February 2005, 08:14 AM

Thank you Marc, this one from Armas don Diego is just what I thought about

Marc · 12th February 2005, 10:19 PM

Thank you for your forgiveness and for the kind words, gentlemen. It's SO much what I've learnt in these fora over the years that contributing with what I can is the least I can do... even if, in all honesty, I can't really say anything noteworthy about kerises

Wolviex, just to make you know, the type of hilt you asked about is not what could be called the commonest of all, but is not really strange in Spanish smallswords of that time. In fact, at a later date, there was even, at least, a couple of military patterns with this hilt, for officers of the Halberdiers Corps of the Royal Guard (patterns 1848 and 1875).

11th February 2005, 11:18 PM	#1
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Wolviex I wonder if you mean the swords with the so called "boat-shell" hilt ("guarnición de barquilla", in Spanish), they are not exactly what one would call smallswords, they are more of a rapier, morphologically speaking, though as they are typical of the 18th century such definition would be somewhat chronologically problematic. An example of what I'm talking about: (Images courtesy of Sala Antiguedades) They normally feature a quote strong blade, and are associated with a military context. Spain kept rapiers in use when the rest of Europe had already adopted some time ago the smallsword fashion. For civilian use, since the last years of the 17th century, the rapier was slowly being substituted by the smallsword, but the definitive push was given by the introduction of the Bourbon Dynasty on the Spanish Throne in 1700. Even so, one may find some oddities from that time, like rapier blades with smallsword hilts... and these "boat-shell" hilt swords that seem to had been use for the most part of the 18th century. This type of hilt, must be said, was used in smallswords, also, with some variations that tended to more delicate lines. See for example: (Image courtesy of Armas Don Diego) I wonder if I'm stretching the "Ethnographic" term, here...

11th February 2005, 11:39 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	" I wonder if I'm stretching the "Ethnographic" term, here... " Not at all Marc . Not at all .

12th February 2005, 02:24 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,278	Hi Marc, You're right! It has been a long time since we talked I'm glad you're still around and especially when you come out of 'lurking'!! You always have a lot to say and as you know, I've always been very admiring of your expertise on Spanish swords. I really do appreciate you addressing the 'bilbo' question as well as noting detail on these other patterns, and the pictures !! beautiful!!! Seconding Rick's comments, outstanding Marc! All the best, Jim

12th February 2005, 08:14 AM	#4
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Thank you Marc, this one from Armas don Diego is just what I thought about

12th February 2005, 10:19 PM	#5
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Thank you for your forgiveness and for the kind words, gentlemen. It's SO much what I've learnt in these fora over the years that contributing with what I can is the least I can do... even if, in all honesty, I can't really say anything noteworthy about kerises Wolviex, just to make you know, the type of hilt you asked about is not what could be called the commonest of all, but is not really strange in Spanish smallswords of that time. In fact, at a later date, there was even, at least, a couple of military patterns with this hilt, for officers of the Halberdiers Corps of the Royal Guard (patterns 1848 and 1875).