A Coteng for comment...

Battara · 10th February 2005, 01:50 AM

Personally I like the silver work on the hilt. This is an earlier form of hilt and so maybe 18c?

BSMStar · 10th February 2005, 02:04 PM

nechesh,

No, I know less about this than you do. The horn could go through the whole Coteng, but I cannot tell. It has a grayish appearance where you can see it at the entrance area for the peksi. I was hoping you good folks could tell me.

Battara,

18c, wow!

Strangely enough, it is on a 20c Panjang. I find Guruda hilts fascinating, so I bought this Keris because of the Coteng... not the Keris.

Thank you for both your knowledge and input!

BSMStar · 10th February 2005, 11:37 PM

Battara,

My guess is that someone visited a "Keris shop," saw and liked the Panjang Keris... but (like me) liked and wanted the Coteng hilt on it. I imagine, if the price was right, the switch was made and the happy buyer went home with a very "strange" Keris combination.

Any thoughts???

BluErf · 11th February 2005, 04:21 PM

I would take the 18th century attribution really carefully. In my opinion, earlier forms are simpler and have less motifs on the surface. The nose is also shorter and straighter, and if I may describe them as such -- shorter and stouter. The curvature on the nose of this is funny, almost tajong-like. I have seen a 'baby' coteng in Paul's collection that has a slight curve at the end of the nose, but that's just a tiny little curl. The makara by the side of this hulu is unusually 'rounded'. The ones I have seen have some 'crispness' to it.

Also, notice the hair motif at the back of the hulu. I've only seen them on Sumatran hulu. And the multitude of rhombuses with the swirl inside -- I swear its a S. Sumatran motif.

Looking from top down, the hulu looks too narrow. A proper coteng/tajong should have a wide head looking from top down. I hazard this hulu may not be made in Pattani, but I stand to be corrected.

BSMStar · 11th February 2005, 04:40 PM

BluErf,

Interesting observations. I have seen two other Panjangs with somewhat similar hulus on them. It got me to thinking, what if.... what if they were intended to be this way? But, I was reminded that the swapped out story was more likely.

So is it possible... Panjangs with Coteng like hulus???

Can someone post some pictures to compare? Thanks!

Battara · 11th February 2005, 11:16 PM

Swapping.....unfortunately, a good point.

DAHenkel · 12th February 2005, 03:43 PM

These are very wierd. I have seen a number of obviously early coteng and the do not resemble this example. this makes me very suspicious. That said the workmanship and details are correct and authentic, although the form is dissimilar to the archetypeal examples I have seen.

My initail guess - fakes, made recently - 18th c. is out of the question. Authentic silver coteng hilts date to about the middle of the 19th c.

Much more research and examination of early provenanced examples needs to be done but I doubt this piece has much age to it. Someday maybe I will be able to get up there and find who is making these but give that it is hard enough to find anyone even willing to admit they speak Malay this may never happen.

10th February 2005, 02:04 PM	#2
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Age? 18c nechesh, No, I know less about this than you do. The horn could go through the whole Coteng, but I cannot tell. It has a grayish appearance where you can see it at the entrance area for the peksi. I was hoping you good folks could tell me. Battara, 18c, wow! Strangely enough, it is on a 20c Panjang. I find Guruda hilts fascinating, so I bought this Keris because of the Coteng... not the Keris. Thank you for both your knowledge and input!

10th February 2005, 11:37 PM	#3
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	18 c Coteng Battara, My guess is that someone visited a "Keris shop," saw and liked the Panjang Keris... but (like me) liked and wanted the Coteng hilt on it. I imagine, if the price was right, the switch was made and the happy buyer went home with a very "strange" Keris combination. Any thoughts???

11th February 2005, 04:40 PM	#5
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	S. Sumatran Hulu BluErf, Interesting observations. I have seen two other Panjangs with somewhat similar hulus on them. It got me to thinking, what if.... what if they were intended to be this way? But, I was reminded that the swapped out story was more likely. So is it possible... Panjangs with Coteng like hulus??? Can someone post some pictures to compare? Thanks!

10th February 2005, 01:50 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Personally I like the silver work on the hilt. This is an earlier form of hilt and so maybe 18c?

11th February 2005, 04:21 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I would take the 18th century attribution really carefully. In my opinion, earlier forms are simpler and have less motifs on the surface. The nose is also shorter and straighter, and if I may describe them as such -- shorter and stouter. The curvature on the nose of this is funny, almost tajong-like. I have seen a 'baby' coteng in Paul's collection that has a slight curve at the end of the nose, but that's just a tiny little curl. The makara by the side of this hulu is unusually 'rounded'. The ones I have seen have some 'crispness' to it. Also, notice the hair motif at the back of the hulu. I've only seen them on Sumatran hulu. And the multitude of rhombuses with the swirl inside -- I swear its a S. Sumatran motif. Looking from top down, the hulu looks too narrow. A proper coteng/tajong should have a wide head looking from top down. I hazard this hulu may not be made in Pattani, but I stand to be corrected.

11th February 2005, 11:16 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Swapping.....unfortunately, a good point.

12th February 2005, 03:43 PM	#7
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	These are very wierd. I have seen a number of obviously early coteng and the do not resemble this example. this makes me very suspicious. That said the workmanship and details are correct and authentic, although the form is dissimilar to the archetypeal examples I have seen. My initail guess - fakes, made recently - 18th c. is out of the question. Authentic silver coteng hilts date to about the middle of the 19th c. Much more research and examination of early provenanced examples needs to be done but I doubt this piece has much age to it. Someday maybe I will be able to get up there and find who is making these but give that it is hard enough to find anyone even willing to admit they speak Malay this may never happen.