Throwing Knife for French and Belgian fans

Tim Simmons · 11th October 2006, 06:51 PM

I got this Zande blade the other day in town. They are not cheap! PM me on this matter? It was certainly cheaper than some I have seen, perhaps as it has no engraving I could just about afford it. You can see how the smith has had trouble maintaining heat, at least you know it was not cut from scrap/trade iron sheet then further formed. Why are some white and other black? this is so with many knives. I have asked this before. I wonder if anyone has a spare handle/materials?

Tim Simmons · 11th October 2006, 08:58 PM

Looking at this with a glass it becomes clear that this is forged of four small pieces of metal. I would imagine the metal was rather precious at the time this was made. Perhaps it is a little older than I had at first thought. That may explain the patina and why to me I thought it was rather expensive.

Freddy · 12th October 2006, 08:47 AM

Nice find, Tim.

And...prices in Belgium for these kinds of knives are rather hight, too. You have to be lucky to find a cheap one (when the seller doesn't know what he's selling

)

You say it's a plain one, but I don't have any trouble with this. If it's a real weapon, why would anyone take the time to decorate it ? Especially when it's a weapon used for throwing, with the chance to loose it.

In my opinion, the heavily decorated throwing knives are more for 'show'. By this I mean, to show the owner's wealth.

As to the handle, I've checked in some books (and sites), it can be anything : a leather bag, a woven bag, some copper binding,etc... In www.mambele.be , I've also seen a similar one with a 'cloth' handle. Perhaps this would be the easiest way to make a handle. Just use a dirty piece of canvas.

I have a Zulgo throwing knife which has this type of handle. I don't think it's that old (I mean the handle), but it works.

Here is the whole throwing knife :

Congoblades · 13th October 2006, 11:44 AM

A copper binding like on the picture would be nice...

Luc LEFEBVRE · 13th October 2006, 01:14 PM

Nice KIPINGA Tim !
It is one of the great form of African TK, now you have one.
It's true all the TK are expensive but fascinating.
Here is mine:
http://lulef.free.fr/html/zande.html

Luc

Tim Simmons · 13th October 2006, 05:46 PM

Thanks for the advice. Since this most probably had a simple handle that may have rotted away years ago I shall just leave it as is. I have put it in the hallway with other things that are less obviously frightening to visitors.

Freddy · 13th October 2006, 06:26 PM

Nice display, Tim.

I like the sword/knife blade with the many curves. Where did you find this one ?

In my opinion, it's a Luba blade.

Tim Simmons · 13th October 2006, 06:37 PM

Thank you Freddy. Apparently there is only one other known example in a collection. I am not swinging from the lamp shade just on one books say so but I am rather glad to know I have a very rare piece. I got it in a junk shop. It was just on the flour all rusty. I paid the price of a curry and two pints of beer. Not bad

.

Freddy · 13th October 2006, 08:52 PM

Sorry, Tim. Apparently, I was wrong in attributing this knife to the Luba.

In 'Rare African Short Weapons' by Manfred A. Zirngibl (1983) I found a picture of a sword almost identical to yours. Based on the handle, the author attributes this sword to the Medje or Makere. The length is 48 cm.

This is what he writes :

This knife with its highly original blade shaped like a snake comes from the Zande or Mangbetu region. Although various museum records as well as several design characteristics such as the engravings on the blade and the relatively heavy-looking ivory handle indicate that it is a Medje or Makere product, it is not possible to classify the piece accurately
All that is certain however is that the knife - based on the shape of its blade - could not have functioned as a weapon. In spite of the sharp cutting edges, it could only have been used as a cult or ornamental knife.

Does your knife blade has any engravings ?

Tim Simmons · 13th October 2006, 09:07 PM

Freddy, my blade has the very same engraving. pictures can be seen on this thread. i am surprised that you missed it

.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2266

Freddy · 13th October 2006, 09:24 PM

I must have been looking for 'goodies' that day, because I missed that thread.

11th October 2006, 06:51 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Throwing Knife for French and Belgian fans I got this Zande blade the other day in town. They are not cheap! PM me on this matter? It was certainly cheaper than some I have seen, perhaps as it has no engraving I could just about afford it. You can see how the smith has had trouble maintaining heat, at least you know it was not cut from scrap/trade iron sheet then further formed. Why are some white and other black? this is so with many knives. I have asked this before. I wonder if anyone has a spare handle/materials? Last edited by Tim Simmons; 11th October 2006 at 09:27 PM.

11th October 2006, 08:58 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Looking at this with a glass it becomes clear that this is forged of four small pieces of metal. I would imagine the metal was rather precious at the time this was made. Perhaps it is a little older than I had at first thought. That may explain the patina and why to me I thought it was rather expensive. Attached Images

13th October 2006, 11:44 AM	#4
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	A copper binding like on the picture would be nice... Attached Images

13th October 2006, 05:46 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Thanks for the advice. Since this most probably had a simple handle that may have rotted away years ago I shall just leave it as is. I have put it in the hallway with other things that are less obviously frightening to visitors. Attached Images

13th October 2006, 08:52 PM	#9
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	a mistake Sorry, Tim. Apparently, I was wrong in attributing this knife to the Luba. In 'Rare African Short Weapons' by Manfred A. Zirngibl (1983) I found a picture of a sword almost identical to yours. Based on the handle, the author attributes this sword to the Medje or Makere. The length is 48 cm. This is what he writes : This knife with its highly original blade shaped like a snake comes from the Zande or Mangbetu region. Although various museum records as well as several design characteristics such as the engravings on the blade and the relatively heavy-looking ivory handle indicate that it is a Medje or Makere product, it is not possible to classify the piece accurately All that is certain however is that the knife - based on the shape of its blade - could not have functioned as a weapon. In spite of the sharp cutting edges, it could only have been used as a cult or ornamental knife. Does your knife blade has any engravings ?

12th October 2006, 08:47 AM	#3
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Nice find, Tim. And...prices in Belgium for these kinds of knives are rather hight, too. You have to be lucky to find a cheap one (when the seller doesn't know what he's selling ) You say it's a plain one, but I don't have any trouble with this. If it's a real weapon, why would anyone take the time to decorate it ? Especially when it's a weapon used for throwing, with the chance to loose it. In my opinion, the heavily decorated throwing knives are more for 'show'. By this I mean, to show the owner's wealth. As to the handle, I've checked in some books (and sites), it can be anything : a leather bag, a woven bag, some copper binding,etc... In www.mambele.be , I've also seen a similar one with a 'cloth' handle. Perhaps this would be the easiest way to make a handle. Just use a dirty piece of canvas. I have a Zulgo throwing knife which has this type of handle. I don't think it's that old (I mean the handle), but it works. Here is the whole throwing knife :

13th October 2006, 01:14 PM	#5
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	Nice KIPINGA Tim ! It is one of the great form of African TK, now you have one. It's true all the TK are expensive but fascinating. Here is mine: http://lulef.free.fr/html/zande.html Luc

13th October 2006, 06:26 PM	#7
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Nice display, Tim. I like the sword/knife blade with the many curves. Where did you find this one ? In my opinion, it's a Luba blade.

13th October 2006, 06:37 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Thank you Freddy. Apparently there is only one other known example in a collection. I am not swinging from the lamp shade just on one books say so but I am rather glad to know I have a very rare piece. I got it in a junk shop. It was just on the flour all rusty. I paid the price of a curry and two pints of beer. Not bad .

13th October 2006, 09:07 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Freddy, my blade has the very same engraving. pictures can be seen on this thread. i am surprised that you missed it . http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2266

13th October 2006, 09:24 PM	#11
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I must have been looking for 'goodies' that day, because I missed that thread.