Heavy Nubian / Nigerian Short sword...age? comments?

Tim Simmons · 12th October 2006, 07:31 PM

I am keen to see some more pictures. One thing that I find a little disconcerting is that the carving in the wax and cast handle does not seem to have any wear so this may be fairly modern. West Africa is well known for its brass casting. I do hope you can allay my fears but I am still a little unsure. Did the seller suggest Nubia/Nigeria? it is a very long way between the two.

katana · 12th October 2006, 08:55 PM

Hi Tim, the seller stated Nubian in the title, which sort of made sense....its close proximity to Egypt, the Romans etc. I began to think 'Gladius' inspired weapon. But the description mentions Nigeria as the country this sword was sourced.
I do agree that 'normal' wear of the hilt is not very evident. I checked various metallury sites about the oxidation patterns of bronze (the hilt is stated as bronze) and the patination shows age. Enlarging the pictures of the hilt, I noticed that the edges of the 'grooves' in the hilt seem to show some 'erosion' which also seems to indicate 'age'.
I wont receive the sword until the end of next week, at the earliest. But am quite intrigued as to its possible history, (or not) as the case may be. Once I get it 'in hand' I think some of the questions will be answered.....but I have searched and searched on the web, checked images from West African tribal photos and have been unable to find any matches. Other than the Therion Arms ...I have found two separate examples ....which were wood hilted (plain but cylindrical) with a similar blade (slightly longer and the 'point' had slightly arched sides) that were both attributed to the Cameroon.....unfortunately neither stated a tribe.

katana · 16th October 2006, 11:39 PM

The seller has furnished me with additional information...

Apparently it was obtained in Nigeria....some years ago...by a Merchant Marine. He was told that the sword was 'NUPE' and he (the seller) insists it is 'battleworthy'. The Nupe had constant conflict with neighbouring tribes and according to my research were skilled 'bronze casters'. Seeing as Dahomey was one such neighbour....Rick's suggestion of Dahomey as the sword's origin seems 'not so wide of the mark'......begining to seem a 'good call' Rick

Tim Simmons · 17th October 2006, 06:55 AM

I do hope so. I apologise for my hesitance on this piece. I just felt that amongst many books on the metal casting and art in that part of West Africa I have never seen anything near such a distinctive "gladius" weapon/symbol. One is learning all the time. Would still like to see some more pics.

katana · 10th November 2006, 10:31 PM

Sword finally arrived today, very heavy and solid......no way a tourist piece...blade is still quite sharp ...even though heavily rusted.....and has a nice 'ring' to it when struck. Gave the blade a careful 'scrape' and wire 'wooled' it ...some areas of deep pitting . Also has fine, diagonal lines which are slightly wavy. I thought at first that it could be a re-worked large file or rasp. But several things don't add up....the blade is a flattened diamond shape (in cross section) and there is evidence of 'forging' marks'. A re-worked 'file' blade often has the 'criss cross' surface noticeable on the thicker portions of the blade ....where it tapers to the 'edge' these tend to disappear either because they are ground/filed down (thus thinning the blade towards the edge) or, as it is forged the 'file teeth' are beaten into the 'file's core'. These 'wavy, diagonal lines traverse from one edge to the other

The hilt is very heavy, when handling the sword I noticed that by grasping the hilt near the top (leaves about 4cms of pommel protruding) gives the swinging action more power.....with the added advantage that the pommel could be used to strike an opponent in 'close quarter' combat.

Will post pics later.....I think I will need natural light to show up the detail.

Also, I re-posted some pics from this post that Ian (thanks)refered to
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=stars
There are many similarities to the hilt...

katana · 11th November 2006, 08:03 PM

Hi Gentlemen.....a few photos....any ideas or comments gratefully received...especially to the diagonal, slightly wavy lines

katana · 11th November 2006, 09:35 PM

It would help if I uploaded them.......

10th November 2006, 10:31 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Sword finally arrived today, very heavy and solid......no way a tourist piece...blade is still quite sharp ...even though heavily rusted.....and has a nice 'ring' to it when struck. Gave the blade a careful 'scrape' and wire 'wooled' it ...some areas of deep pitting . Also has fine, diagonal lines which are slightly wavy. I thought at first that it could be a re-worked large file or rasp. But several things don't add up....the blade is a flattened diamond shape (in cross section) and there is evidence of 'forging' marks'. A re-worked 'file' blade often has the 'criss cross' surface noticeable on the thicker portions of the blade ....where it tapers to the 'edge' these tend to disappear either because they are ground/filed down (thus thinning the blade towards the edge) or, as it is forged the 'file teeth' are beaten into the 'file's core'. These 'wavy, diagonal lines traverse from one edge to the other The hilt is very heavy, when handling the sword I noticed that by grasping the hilt near the top (leaves about 4cms of pommel protruding) gives the swinging action more power.....with the added advantage that the pommel could be used to strike an opponent in 'close quarter' combat. Will post pics later.....I think I will need natural light to show up the detail. Also, I re-posted some pics from this post that Ian (thanks)refered to http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=stars There are many similarities to the hilt... Attached Images

11th November 2006, 09:35 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	It would help if I uploaded them....... Attached Images

12th October 2006, 07:31 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I am keen to see some more pictures. One thing that I find a little disconcerting is that the carving in the wax and cast handle does not seem to have any wear so this may be fairly modern. West Africa is well known for its brass casting. I do hope you can allay my fears but I am still a little unsure. Did the seller suggest Nubia/Nigeria? it is a very long way between the two.

12th October 2006, 08:55 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Tim, the seller stated Nubian in the title, which sort of made sense....its close proximity to Egypt, the Romans etc. I began to think 'Gladius' inspired weapon. But the description mentions Nigeria as the country this sword was sourced. I do agree that 'normal' wear of the hilt is not very evident. I checked various metallury sites about the oxidation patterns of bronze (the hilt is stated as bronze) and the patination shows age. Enlarging the pictures of the hilt, I noticed that the edges of the 'grooves' in the hilt seem to show some 'erosion' which also seems to indicate 'age'. I wont receive the sword until the end of next week, at the earliest. But am quite intrigued as to its possible history, (or not) as the case may be. Once I get it 'in hand' I think some of the questions will be answered.....but I have searched and searched on the web, checked images from West African tribal photos and have been unable to find any matches. Other than the Therion Arms ...I have found two separate examples ....which were wood hilted (plain but cylindrical) with a similar blade (slightly longer and the 'point' had slightly arched sides) that were both attributed to the Cameroon.....unfortunately neither stated a tribe.

16th October 2006, 11:39 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	The seller has furnished me with additional information... Apparently it was obtained in Nigeria....some years ago...by a Merchant Marine. He was told that the sword was 'NUPE' and he (the seller) insists it is 'battleworthy'. The Nupe had constant conflict with neighbouring tribes and according to my research were skilled 'bronze casters'. Seeing as Dahomey was one such neighbour....Rick's suggestion of Dahomey as the sword's origin seems 'not so wide of the mark'......begining to seem a 'good call' Rick

17th October 2006, 06:55 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I do hope so. I apologise for my hesitance on this piece. I just felt that amongst many books on the metal casting and art in that part of West Africa I have never seen anything near such a distinctive "gladius" weapon/symbol. One is learning all the time. Would still like to see some more pics.

11th November 2006, 08:03 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Gentlemen.....a few photos....any ideas or comments gratefully received...especially to the diagonal, slightly wavy lines