Heavy Nubian / Nigerian Short sword...age? comments?

Tim Simmons · 9th October 2006, 09:13 AM

I do beg your pardon. I have always associated "hwi" "ada" and "udamalore" as some of the finest and high status work of the city states of West Africa. Much like old fashioned city mayor regalia, its quality varies depending on it wealth and affiliation to the royal household. It does not look like a fighting weapon to me, what do you think? I felt unsure because of the apparent ageing to the brass with not a lot of sign of frequent fondling

I love saying that.

Lew · 9th October 2006, 12:33 PM

I have seen these swords before with claims they are from Nigeria? Hopefully this is not a Chinese copy of an African sword

Just think of it having the market flooded with chinese made repros of this type of stuff

Lew

katana · 9th October 2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Hopefully this is not a Chinese copy of an African sword

Just think of it having the market flooded with chinese made repros of this type of stuff

Lew

I think that unlikely.....why produce a 'copy' of an unfamiliar, plain sword from a continent thats not world famous for it's sword production ? Hardly good business sense.....even for the 'fake-makers'.

With the weight, thickness of the blade and its lack of adornment I believe this to be a functional weapon. Dahomey (Benin), Cameroon or neighbouring Nigeria seem likely. Considering the French involvement with Dahomey its not unreasonable to suggest that this sword could be a native copy of a 'cabbage cutter', the nickname for the short French issue side arm.
The area historically had many craftsmen that used 'lost wax' casting of bronze and brass ......again suggesting the same area. And as Ian has pointed out...the chevron 'motif' suggests Dahomey.

Lew .. when I receive the sword and if I find a stamp ' frabrique' en Chine'
I'll let you know

katana · 11th October 2006, 10:37 PM

Added this picture, looking down on the handle.........seems to have a well formed blade.....definately looks functional to me......but then I'm biased

Tim Simmons · 12th October 2006, 07:31 PM

I am keen to see some more pictures. One thing that I find a little disconcerting is that the carving in the wax and cast handle does not seem to have any wear so this may be fairly modern. West Africa is well known for its brass casting. I do hope you can allay my fears but I am still a little unsure. Did the seller suggest Nubia/Nigeria? it is a very long way between the two.

katana · 12th October 2006, 08:55 PM

Hi Tim, the seller stated Nubian in the title, which sort of made sense....its close proximity to Egypt, the Romans etc. I began to think 'Gladius' inspired weapon. But the description mentions Nigeria as the country this sword was sourced.
I do agree that 'normal' wear of the hilt is not very evident. I checked various metallury sites about the oxidation patterns of bronze (the hilt is stated as bronze) and the patination shows age. Enlarging the pictures of the hilt, I noticed that the edges of the 'grooves' in the hilt seem to show some 'erosion' which also seems to indicate 'age'.
I wont receive the sword until the end of next week, at the earliest. But am quite intrigued as to its possible history, (or not) as the case may be. Once I get it 'in hand' I think some of the questions will be answered.....but I have searched and searched on the web, checked images from West African tribal photos and have been unable to find any matches. Other than the Therion Arms ...I have found two separate examples ....which were wood hilted (plain but cylindrical) with a similar blade (slightly longer and the 'point' had slightly arched sides) that were both attributed to the Cameroon.....unfortunately neither stated a tribe.

katana · 16th October 2006, 11:39 PM

The seller has furnished me with additional information...

Apparently it was obtained in Nigeria....some years ago...by a Merchant Marine. He was told that the sword was 'NUPE' and he (the seller) insists it is 'battleworthy'. The Nupe had constant conflict with neighbouring tribes and according to my research were skilled 'bronze casters'. Seeing as Dahomey was one such neighbour....Rick's suggestion of Dahomey as the sword's origin seems 'not so wide of the mark'......begining to seem a 'good call' Rick

11th October 2006, 10:37 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Added this picture, looking down on the handle.........seems to have a well formed blade.....definately looks functional to me......but then I'm biased Attached Images

9th October 2006, 09:13 AM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I do beg your pardon. I have always associated "hwi" "ada" and "udamalore" as some of the finest and high status work of the city states of West Africa. Much like old fashioned city mayor regalia, its quality varies depending on it wealth and affiliation to the royal household. It does not look like a fighting weapon to me, what do you think? I felt unsure because of the apparent ageing to the brass with not a lot of sign of frequent fondling I love saying that.

9th October 2006, 12:33 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I have seen these swords before with claims they are from Nigeria? Hopefully this is not a Chinese copy of an African sword Just think of it having the market flooded with chinese made repros of this type of stuff Lew

12th October 2006, 07:31 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I am keen to see some more pictures. One thing that I find a little disconcerting is that the carving in the wax and cast handle does not seem to have any wear so this may be fairly modern. West Africa is well known for its brass casting. I do hope you can allay my fears but I am still a little unsure. Did the seller suggest Nubia/Nigeria? it is a very long way between the two.

12th October 2006, 08:55 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Tim, the seller stated Nubian in the title, which sort of made sense....its close proximity to Egypt, the Romans etc. I began to think 'Gladius' inspired weapon. But the description mentions Nigeria as the country this sword was sourced. I do agree that 'normal' wear of the hilt is not very evident. I checked various metallury sites about the oxidation patterns of bronze (the hilt is stated as bronze) and the patination shows age. Enlarging the pictures of the hilt, I noticed that the edges of the 'grooves' in the hilt seem to show some 'erosion' which also seems to indicate 'age'. I wont receive the sword until the end of next week, at the earliest. But am quite intrigued as to its possible history, (or not) as the case may be. Once I get it 'in hand' I think some of the questions will be answered.....but I have searched and searched on the web, checked images from West African tribal photos and have been unable to find any matches. Other than the Therion Arms ...I have found two separate examples ....which were wood hilted (plain but cylindrical) with a similar blade (slightly longer and the 'point' had slightly arched sides) that were both attributed to the Cameroon.....unfortunately neither stated a tribe.

16th October 2006, 11:39 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	The seller has furnished me with additional information... Apparently it was obtained in Nigeria....some years ago...by a Merchant Marine. He was told that the sword was 'NUPE' and he (the seller) insists it is 'battleworthy'. The Nupe had constant conflict with neighbouring tribes and according to my research were skilled 'bronze casters'. Seeing as Dahomey was one such neighbour....Rick's suggestion of Dahomey as the sword's origin seems 'not so wide of the mark'......begining to seem a 'good call' Rick