A Question About Gonjos

Rick · 6th October 2006, 07:07 PM

Hi Henk ,
That's something to consider ; but also when you look at the ricikan (correct term?) of both kerises they are similar even though one is Javanese or Maduran and the other seems Sumatran (cross pollination?).

About the lack of pamor on the Jawa piece; it is a very old blade and if I recall correctly from a past discussion of this one possibly from the Sultan Agung period; also again if I recall correctly there was some mention of a prohibition during that time of pamored gonjos or of openly displaying the pamor of one's keris .

Could this be a feature of dapur; or does dapur not cover the area of the gonjo ?

David · 6th October 2006, 07:14 PM

Hi Rick. I believe dapur does cover the area of the gonjo as well, but perhaps others have a different take on that. On the issue of the gonjo having the same pamor as the blade, i don't think this is necessarily the case. There was, if i remember correctly, in certain areas, even a prohibition on pamor on the gonjo of non-court keris.
As to the original question at hand, could this not be just the effects of age and acid washing. That has always been my assumption. I have never seen a newly made keris with this "feature". I don't think it is intentional and i don't think it is necessarily a sign of a replacement gonjo either.

David · 6th October 2006, 07:16 PM

BTW, i love the swastika patern on that Javanese hilt.

Rick · 6th October 2006, 07:22 PM

Hi David , I believe it's a Maduran ukiran; sorry I didnt show it in its entirety.

I'm just not sure if this is the result of warangan; the Sumatran keris does not look heavily eroded enough for this to have ocurred .

simatua · 6th October 2006, 08:48 PM

Besides the fact that a replaced ganja not fits the blade,
imo one of the reasons can be the heat.
At first the ganja is made at fit size before "welded" to the blade.
During the welding of the ganja, compared with a lot of heat, the tension in the metal causes the lifted tail.
Also you see a lot of little round damages close to the peksi, because there is the center of the heat, and the place where the ganja is hammered to the blade.
Like i say just an opinion.

I got the idea of a friend who has a nice keris, afterwards gold was laid on the ganja, also compared with a lot of heat and tension in the material, wich caused
space between the blade and ganja

BluErf · 7th October 2006, 06:42 AM

I thought of another explanation - when a keris sheath is made for a keris, a well-made sheath's only point of contact with the keris shd be the ganja. Hence, the blade is 'suspended' in the sheath, supported only by the ganja. With time, and with all the wearing of the keris (worn upright), the weight of the blade causes the ganja to warp away from the main blade.

A similar case would be with katanas/wakizashis/tantos - the blade suspends in the sheath, supported by the habaki and the mouth of the scabbard,

Alam Shah · 8th October 2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

I thought of another explanation - when a keris sheath is made for a keris, a well-made sheath's only point of contact with the keris shd be the ganja. Hence, the blade is 'suspended' in the sheath, supported only by the ganja. With time, and with all the wearing of the keris (worn upright), the weight of the blade causes the ganja to warp away from the main blade.

Agreed with BluErf comment, adding another...
In Javanese terms, this phenomenon is known as "Nyangkem Kodok". This might be due to age wear from years of ritual cleansing or improper treatment of the blade. Uneven heat treatment to one part of the blade was also thought to contribute to this effect.

6th October 2006, 07:22 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Hi David , I believe it's a Maduran ukiran; sorry I didnt show it in its entirety. I'm just not sure if this is the result of warangan; the Sumatran keris does not look heavily eroded enough for this to have ocurred . Attached Images

6th October 2006, 08:48 PM	#5
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	lifted tail cause of the heat Besides the fact that a replaced ganja not fits the blade, imo one of the reasons can be the heat. At first the ganja is made at fit size before "welded" to the blade. During the welding of the ganja, compared with a lot of heat, the tension in the metal causes the lifted tail. Also you see a lot of little round damages close to the peksi, because there is the center of the heat, and the place where the ganja is hammered to the blade. Like i say just an opinion. I got the idea of a friend who has a nice keris, afterwards gold was laid on the ganja, also compared with a lot of heat and tension in the material, wich caused space between the blade and ganja

6th October 2006, 07:07 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Hi Henk , That's something to consider ; but also when you look at the ricikan (correct term?) of both kerises they are similar even though one is Javanese or Maduran and the other seems Sumatran (cross pollination?). About the lack of pamor on the Jawa piece; it is a very old blade and if I recall correctly from a past discussion of this one possibly from the Sultan Agung period; also again if I recall correctly there was some mention of a prohibition during that time of pamored gonjos or of openly displaying the pamor of one's keris . Could this be a feature of dapur; or does dapur not cover the area of the gonjo ?

6th October 2006, 07:14 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Hi Rick. I believe dapur does cover the area of the gonjo as well, but perhaps others have a different take on that. On the issue of the gonjo having the same pamor as the blade, i don't think this is necessarily the case. There was, if i remember correctly, in certain areas, even a prohibition on pamor on the gonjo of non-court keris. As to the original question at hand, could this not be just the effects of age and acid washing. That has always been my assumption. I have never seen a newly made keris with this "feature". I don't think it is intentional and i don't think it is necessarily a sign of a replacement gonjo either.

6th October 2006, 07:16 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	BTW, i love the swastika patern on that Javanese hilt.

7th October 2006, 06:42 AM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I thought of another explanation - when a keris sheath is made for a keris, a well-made sheath's only point of contact with the keris shd be the ganja. Hence, the blade is 'suspended' in the sheath, supported only by the ganja. With time, and with all the wearing of the keris (worn upright), the weight of the blade causes the ganja to warp away from the main blade. A similar case would be with katanas/wakizashis/tantos - the blade suspends in the sheath, supported by the habaki and the mouth of the scabbard,