Questions about Mr. Khorasani's lecture

[Ian]

This thread is in danger of deteriorating into issues of personalities. Please do not force me to lock it and hand out suspensions to members making inappropriate comments. If pushed to that point, some people could be taking a month's vacation or longer from posting here!

Please keep all discussions civil and focussed on the subject not the personalities. If not, action will be swift and decisive without further comment or explanation from the Staff.

Let's get back to the subject of this discussion if anyone has something further to say. If not, then I suggest we let this subject rest.

Ian.

[B.I]

i am slightly confused as to where this is all going. ian has noted something we were all fully aware of, that any discussion about this author could lead to a potential threadlock and so we must tread carefully. i do realise that with the author being a moderator of another forum, we risk a division which we all know must be avoided.
the last thread was rightly locked, because there were opinions about the author and not the book. this thread was meant to be about a lecture on iranian arms.
i am not sure why doug took my post the wrong way.
i have always considered this forum to be relatively laid back. a place to discuss things and occasionally have a joke, as long as the rules are adhered to and no offence was meant. and amidst this light hearted banter, we occasionally learn something.
i can only see that doug is gunning on behalf on manouchers honour, which is admirable, but sometimes misplaced.
i have not mentioned the book in this post. why would i, as i have only spent an hour or so with it. i do have opinions on it, but would not dream or mentioning it here until i have done the book justice and read it.
surely then my opinions would be valid???
but, i am not sure they would.
if i spent $150 (plus postage) on a book and devoted a good few weeks of my life reading it and soaking it what it has to offer, would i be allowed to offer an opinion on it?
or is any potential critisism not accepted. surely then, no one must ever say a bad word against any book or any author, for fear of offending someone.
i dont know anything about persian bronze casters, but then again, that isnt the point i was making. in a way, i was actually defending manoucher's claim.
i do know persian bronzes as art objects, it that i have seen and handled many fantastic examples. my point was that the finished piece was no better than the best of other cultures. this is an asthetic point of view, and not an academic one. but, i am a collector and this is the only point of view i have! so, my opinion shouldnt need to be supported by reading any book.
if this was a thesis, yes, but a friendly banter forum, no.
my 'dealer friend' story was purely to show how an exaggeration can be used in a friendly way, to strengthen a description. i was actually saying that all manoucher probably meant was that he thought that persian bronzes were pretty damn good. i saw nothing wrong in his way of saying it, and i am sure he didnt mean for anyone to try and prove him wrong.
if any post is pulled apart aggressively, sentence by sentence, then many unintended things can be supposed. i would suggest reading a post as a whole, to see what the writer meant, and not steer it in a different direction. if you are looking for fault, then it will be easy to find, even if it isnt there.
i am very sorry that doug took my post the wrong way. however, i am not sorry about anything i wrote as i just re-read it and cant see how i could have given offence. i wrote my post, and i know what i meant, and i meant nothing bad.
i personally feel that with this book and the sensitive situation that has aroused over it we should do two things. first, we should only express a valid opinion on the published work, once read, and not on the author. secondly, we should listen to these valid opinions and not get so defensive. opinions, if backed up with time spent on the article, are valid.
surely a forum is a place for discussion of such things. robert elgood throws the occasional wild statement out there, to provoke a debate. this debate is healthy, as it allows many others to join in on a subject and so further our understanding and knowledge.
in my opinion, manoucher did not write a ''definative book'' on iranian arms. he wrote a book on iranian arms, which set the table for others to discuss a subject he is undoubtably passionate about. for this, he and all other authors should be admired. if each book is definative, then i can happily take down some book shelves.
if there are mistakes in there, then they sould be discussed, but in a friendly way.
i read ann's review and thorougly enjoyed it. however, it is an opinion of a scholar/academic. there is another side to this coin with an opinion which is just as valid. in fact, only when the two come together, will we really be getting somewhere.
its a sad fact, that this thread will ultimately be locked. i personally take my library very seriously and thoroughly enjoy every book in it, both good and bad.
where can we discuss these things if not on a forum??

[tsubame1]

Originally Posted by B.I

I was actually saying that all manoucher probably meant was that he thought that persian bronzes were pretty damn good. i saw nothing wrong in his way of saying it, and i am sure he didnt mean for anyone to try and prove him wrong.

...that's the most plausible and proactive way to intend it.

[Rivkin]

Gentlemen,

First of all I have no claim to be a "serious student of weapons" or an "expert". I am just a savage who likes to discuss pointy thingies.
Second, if Manoucher indeed used the word "prohibited" instead of "taught" it is his mistake or misinterpretation of other's writing. Nothing tragic or horrible about it, and no connection to the book that I can detect.
Third, I strongly suspect that if I start calling all of MIT students asking how their bronze casting is coming, I can be slightly misunderstood. Again, I am not an expert or serious student so I can just assume that swiss pocket knives are a little bit more popular novadays than akenakes.
Fourth, Concerning Dr. Feuerbach: I do not want to spent my time trying to prove that Michelangelo or Shota did not copy their work from persians who were in the mean time "preserving" the knowledge of the classical world, those who are intrested in the subject can just read relevant literature and make up their own opinion.There are a lot of theories our there I don't like, but should we convert Vikingsword into arguing over which one is right ? I think not - you have your crowd at swordforum, Dr. Feuerbach is entitled to her opinion, same as Dr.Farroukh is entitled to his fight against turkish history and Bozkurtlar are entitled to whatever they think.
The devision has not started yesterday; it involves nations, politics and lots of blood. I have made clear my position on the question and I propose further discussion to be moved into private mail - it is a question which is much greater than swords or history, it is how we understand swords and history.

[Andrew]

This topic has reached a point of diminishing returns. Feel free to continue it via email or PM.

Thread closed.