Ban on Keris

Raja Muda · 7th February 2005, 08:18 AM

Thanks Bang Rahman. That confirms what I have at the back of my mind. However, I'm also interested to know if similar legislations are made elsewhere in or outside the Malay lands. Anyone?

Rick · 7th February 2005, 02:59 PM

Wasn't it Pershing that ordered the Moros to disarm early in the 20th century ? It's in the archives here somewhere .

Anyway the upshot of it was that there was so much wrangling between the US troops over them that an incredibly large amount of weapons were loaded in boats and dumped overside out beyond the reefs .

rahman · 7th February 2005, 03:33 PM

Raja Muda

My history is very rusty, but I believe a similar ban was imposed following the Pangkor Treaty (bad on the dates, sorry). I think the first British Resident was murdered, and this had something to do with it. Do a google search on pangkor... I think there's a lot of stuff online. I checked it a few weeks ago.

Keris lovers might also be interested that John Crawford, the first Resident in Singapore, was also stabbed by a keris. However, because his attacker stabbed from a crouching/hiding position, he was badly wounded in rthe chest but survived.

This lends proof that the keris was indeed seen and used as a weapon in the Malay world.

I'm now ploughing thru the arcane language of Hikayat Hang Tuah and Sejarah Melayu. Wonderful references in there about the use of Keris Panjang and Keris Pandak (keris pendek?). I can tell you that the keris panjang was a slashing weapon, and is not the same as the keris penyalang (executioner's sword).

Raja Muda · 8th February 2005, 06:55 AM

Hi Rick, Bang Rahman,

It would be great if I can get more info on the banning of various sidearms throughout the archipelago, the dates and the motives as well.

I've read somewhere that after the Indian mutiny, the East India Company offloaded a lot of swords in the Southeast Asian markets, which perhaps accounts for the origins of the piso podang? Maybe it was in Gardner's book.
Bang Rahman, while you're patiently untangling the ancient language of Sejarah Melayu, do look out for references on Keris Tempa Melaka ( I think the blade is three palms long, in Malay tiga jengkal/tiga hasta).
If the blade is broad enough, then this keris could have functioned like a short sword I suppose, like a Roman gladius.
There's some other references to weapons throughout, including a slave murdering a prince of the ruling house by stabbing him through the house's floor (probably during the unfortunate reign of Sultan Mahmud, I have to check). Do tell me if you unearth anything, as I'll be checking through mine.
Are you using the Shellabear version, the Samad version or the more recent hardcover edited by Prof Muhammad Haji Salleh. I believe there are some minor variations between them as they are from different handwritten originals.

rahman · 8th February 2005, 01:26 PM

Raja Muda

I'm using the Shellabear Student Edition. I'm actually reading the full text 35 years after my HSC exams!

Is there any context to the Keris Tempa Melaka (any incident?). Can't recall seeing this, but the keris panjang belonging to Raja Muda Trengganu was 8 jengkal -- I estimate that to be more than 2 feet long!

I'll also keep a lookout for that story about stabbing thru the palace floor. But I thought that was the fight between Hang Tuah and Hang Jebat, and the hulubalang decided to stab Jebat with their spears through the palace floor. As a result, both Jebat and Tuah decided to continue the fight after laying out the floor with metal trays (dulang). Was there another separate incident of this?

Rick · 8th February 2005, 03:18 PM

Here is a thread from the old forum . In it Federico cites sources for the information and (correct) dates of Pershings order .

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002215.html

DAHenkel · 10th February 2005, 12:12 PM

Interesting thread which brings a couple things to mind.

First, I recently read that Raffles, upon becoming governor of Bencoolen in the early 19th century, lifted a ban on the wearing of keris in the town out of respect for the feelings of the Malay inhabitants. Funny then that he saw fit to ban them in Singapore. Perhaps it was Farquar?

Also, I have been told that when the British took over control of Kelantan, they introduced a ban on the wearing of keris in Kota Bahru. This in turn sparked an interest in smaller keris, in particular the so called keris debek, which could be worn concealed. I have no historical sources for this so it must remain hearsay but it would be worth digging around a bit to find out if this were true.

7th February 2005, 08:18 AM	#1
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Terima Kasih Daun Keladi Thanks Bang Rahman. That confirms what I have at the back of my mind. However, I'm also interested to know if similar legislations are made elsewhere in or outside the Malay lands. Anyone?

8th February 2005, 06:55 AM	#4
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Contraband Hi Rick, Bang Rahman, It would be great if I can get more info on the banning of various sidearms throughout the archipelago, the dates and the motives as well. I've read somewhere that after the Indian mutiny, the East India Company offloaded a lot of swords in the Southeast Asian markets, which perhaps accounts for the origins of the piso podang? Maybe it was in Gardner's book. Bang Rahman, while you're patiently untangling the ancient language of Sejarah Melayu, do look out for references on Keris Tempa Melaka ( I think the blade is three palms long, in Malay tiga jengkal/tiga hasta). If the blade is broad enough, then this keris could have functioned like a short sword I suppose, like a Roman gladius. There's some other references to weapons throughout, including a slave murdering a prince of the ruling house by stabbing him through the house's floor (probably during the unfortunate reign of Sultan Mahmud, I have to check). Do tell me if you unearth anything, as I'll be checking through mine. Are you using the Shellabear version, the Samad version or the more recent hardcover edited by Prof Muhammad Haji Salleh. I believe there are some minor variations between them as they are from different handwritten originals.

8th February 2005, 03:18 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Raja Muda Here is a thread from the old forum . In it Federico cites sources for the information and (correct) dates of Pershings order . http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002215.html

7th February 2005, 02:59 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Wasn't it Pershing that ordered the Moros to disarm early in the 20th century ? It's in the archives here somewhere . Anyway the upshot of it was that there was so much wrangling between the US troops over them that an incredibly large amount of weapons were loaded in boats and dumped overside out beyond the reefs .

7th February 2005, 03:33 PM	#3
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	Raja Muda My history is very rusty, but I believe a similar ban was imposed following the Pangkor Treaty (bad on the dates, sorry). I think the first British Resident was murdered, and this had something to do with it. Do a google search on pangkor... I think there's a lot of stuff online. I checked it a few weeks ago. Keris lovers might also be interested that John Crawford, the first Resident in Singapore, was also stabbed by a keris. However, because his attacker stabbed from a crouching/hiding position, he was badly wounded in rthe chest but survived. This lends proof that the keris was indeed seen and used as a weapon in the Malay world. I'm now ploughing thru the arcane language of Hikayat Hang Tuah and Sejarah Melayu. Wonderful references in there about the use of Keris Panjang and Keris Pandak (keris pendek?). I can tell you that the keris panjang was a slashing weapon, and is not the same as the keris penyalang (executioner's sword).

8th February 2005, 01:26 PM	#5
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	Raja Muda I'm using the Shellabear Student Edition. I'm actually reading the full text 35 years after my HSC exams! Is there any context to the Keris Tempa Melaka (any incident?). Can't recall seeing this, but the keris panjang belonging to Raja Muda Trengganu was 8 jengkal -- I estimate that to be more than 2 feet long! I'll also keep a lookout for that story about stabbing thru the palace floor. But I thought that was the fight between Hang Tuah and Hang Jebat, and the hulubalang decided to stab Jebat with their spears through the palace floor. As a result, both Jebat and Tuah decided to continue the fight after laying out the floor with metal trays (dulang). Was there another separate incident of this?

10th February 2005, 12:12 PM	#7
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Interesting thread which brings a couple things to mind. First, I recently read that Raffles, upon becoming governor of Bencoolen in the early 19th century, lifted a ban on the wearing of keris in the town out of respect for the feelings of the Malay inhabitants. Funny then that he saw fit to ban them in Singapore. Perhaps it was Farquar? Also, I have been told that when the British took over control of Kelantan, they introduced a ban on the wearing of keris in Kota Bahru. This in turn sparked an interest in smaller keris, in particular the so called keris debek, which could be worn concealed. I have no historical sources for this so it must remain hearsay but it would be worth digging around a bit to find out if this were true.