Comments?

nechesh · 5th February 2005, 11:04 PM

Fascinating. I have never seen Javanese ukiran with set stones so i guess that threw me. Also the gold, these materials are not usual for Jawa. What are inten, i do not know this stone?
You seem to know a bit more about this piece then you are telling, so out with it Mick!

Mick · 6th February 2005, 12:50 AM

nechesh

Inten is a raw uncut (or slightly cut) diamond from the mines outside of Banjermasin in southern Borneo.

Sang Keris · 6th February 2005, 12:57 AM

very very nice handle.. !

John · 6th February 2005, 01:19 AM

Mick,

I've always enjoyed ALL the items you've posted and have saved them for references, if you don't mind

. Picked this one when you were in Indonesia?

When it comes to figurine hilts like the one you've posted or Empu Kumis' avatar, I've had futile attempts in finding references as to who the dieties are precisely, their names etc; one always get a general description such as a diety, a raksasa or a god. Still trying to find out who the figures such as yours and EK's are if you or anyone knows.

capt.smash · 6th February 2005, 01:24 AM

"When it comes to figurine hilts like the one you've posted or Empu Kumis' avatar, I've had futile attempts in finding references as to who the dieties are precisely, their names etc; one always get a general description such as a diety, a raksasa or a god. Still trying to find out who the figures such as yours and EK's are if you or anyone knows"

Hi im also interested in more info in this area, its realy hard going finding anything detailed on this.

p.s. i just figured out how to do the quote thing

..ohh well ill know next time.

Alam Shah · 6th February 2005, 01:44 AM

Based on references from Ensiklopedi Keris, pg.504, the handle is definitely from Cirebon. It's a raksasa kerdil. Mainly it is made from wood and normally it is not fitted with any jewels.
Materials and style might be incorporated with inspiration from Balinese handles. (My 2 cents worth.)

Naga Sasra · 6th February 2005, 02:18 AM

I believe I have had the pleasure to inspect this handle in person, thank you Mick.
From what I remember it is correctly identified as from Jawa made in the 16-17th century based upon a model that date back to the Central Javanese Hindu era (about 9th century)
I also seem to remember it had a core of resin and was covered in high karat gold foil. The attribute in the right hand is the club, which points to Raden Bima. The cone shape on the socket also suggest that the item is missing the selut.
Either way it is a great piece of history. Thank you for sharing this with us all.

For the forum members that are seeking written information on keris handles, may I suggest Keris-Griffe by Martin Kerner, CH-3116 Kirchdorf, Switzerland

Alam Shah · 6th February 2005, 03:36 AM

Thanks for the reference, mate.

Will check it out before further comment.

John · 6th February 2005, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra

The attribute in the right hand is the club, which points to Raden Bima.

Good to see an "old boy" speak as always...

Am I right to assume this Raden Bima is the second of the Pandawa brothers of the Mahabarata epic (Yudhistira, Bima, Arjuna, Nakula and Sahadewa)? Don't quite recall the club attribute.

Naga Sasra · 6th February 2005, 12:57 PM

John, you are absolutely correct, Bima is the second of the Pandawa brothers. He is shown as an armourer in the relief of Candi Sukuh among other places.
He has been iconized in many different ways with attribute in his right hand (sword or club) or no attribute at all, he has also been shown with or with out a hair bun and with or without long thump nails, sitting, squatting or standing.

For more information I suggest “Keris-Griffe aus Museen und Privatsammlungen” by Martin Kerner. It is written mostly in German but with some English translations.

Oh John, thanks for the “old boy” attribution

6th February 2005, 01:19 AM	#4
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Name of diety or figure? Mick, I've always enjoyed ALL the items you've posted and have saved them for references, if you don't mind . Picked this one when you were in Indonesia? When it comes to figurine hilts like the one you've posted or Empu Kumis' avatar, I've had futile attempts in finding references as to who the dieties are precisely, their names etc; one always get a general description such as a diety, a raksasa or a god. Still trying to find out who the figures such as yours and EK's are if you or anyone knows.

6th February 2005, 03:36 AM	#8
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Thanks for the reference, mate. Will check it out before further comment. Last edited by Alam Shah; 6th February 2005 at 04:29 PM.

5th February 2005, 11:04 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Fascinating. I have never seen Javanese ukiran with set stones so i guess that threw me. Also the gold, these materials are not usual for Jawa. What are inten, i do not know this stone? You seem to know a bit more about this piece then you are telling, so out with it Mick!

6th February 2005, 12:50 AM	#2
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	nechesh Inten is a raw uncut (or slightly cut) diamond from the mines outside of Banjermasin in southern Borneo.

6th February 2005, 12:57 AM	#3
Sang Keris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indonesia Posts: 46	very very nice handle.. !

6th February 2005, 01:24 AM	#5
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	"When it comes to figurine hilts like the one you've posted or Empu Kumis' avatar, I've had futile attempts in finding references as to who the dieties are precisely, their names etc; one always get a general description such as a diety, a raksasa or a god. Still trying to find out who the figures such as yours and EK's are if you or anyone knows" Hi im also interested in more info in this area, its realy hard going finding anything detailed on this. p.s. i just figured out how to do the quote thing ..ohh well ill know next time.

6th February 2005, 01:44 AM	#6
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Based on references from Ensiklopedi Keris, pg.504, the handle is definitely from Cirebon. It's a raksasa kerdil. Mainly it is made from wood and normally it is not fitted with any jewels. Materials and style might be incorporated with inspiration from Balinese handles. (My 2 cents worth.)

6th February 2005, 02:18 AM	#7
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	I believe I have had the pleasure to inspect this handle in person, thank you Mick. From what I remember it is correctly identified as from Jawa made in the 16-17th century based upon a model that date back to the Central Javanese Hindu era (about 9th century) I also seem to remember it had a core of resin and was covered in high karat gold foil. The attribute in the right hand is the club, which points to Raden Bima. The cone shape on the socket also suggest that the item is missing the selut. Either way it is a great piece of history. Thank you for sharing this with us all. For the forum members that are seeking written information on keris handles, may I suggest Keris-Griffe by Martin Kerner, CH-3116 Kirchdorf, Switzerland

6th February 2005, 12:57 PM	#10
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	John, you are absolutely correct, Bima is the second of the Pandawa brothers. He is shown as an armourer in the relief of Candi Sukuh among other places. He has been iconized in many different ways with attribute in his right hand (sword or club) or no attribute at all, he has also been shown with or with out a hair bun and with or without long thump nails, sitting, squatting or standing. For more information I suggest “Keris-Griffe aus Museen und Privatsammlungen” by Martin Kerner. It is written mostly in German but with some English translations. Oh John, thanks for the “old boy” attribution