Bow and arrows from ?

Flavio · 27th August 2006, 04:56 PM

Yeah, Congo, cane and reed are the same (Phragmites communis = Arundo phragmites). The plants that grow along the rivers or in the swampy zones

katana · 27th August 2006, 07:30 PM

I've been checking on bamboo.... it seems that it is only available in sub-Saharan regions, if African .....this is the area to look. Asian areas it is prolific, so I tend towards S.E.A as a likely source. My understanding is that many African arrowheads are fixed to thin diameter reed which,is in turn, fixed to the main arrow shaft. However, I do not not know whether this is common to all African arrows........ I still think this is a nice item.

katana · 27th August 2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Yeah, Congo, cane and reed are the same (Phragmites communis = Arundo phragmites). The plants that grow along the rivers or in the swampy zones

Flavio is correct.....reed and bamboo are all related to grass

katana · 27th August 2006, 07:52 PM

This is a similar match.....India 1900's

ASIAN ETHNOGRAPHIC COLLECTION
Culture: INDIAN
Country: INDIA
Material: BAMBOO, CORD, METAL, THREAD, FEATHER
Dimensions: A) L:75.2 W:10 H:1.8 B) L:53 W:3 H:2.2 C)L:49 W:2.5 H:2 [in CM]
Donor: MISSIONARY
Acquisition Year: 1900

Freddy · 27th August 2006, 08:04 PM

Hi Guy,
Nice bow, you found. Where exactly was that fleamarket ?

I tried to find something on African bows in my books, but it isn't easy.

I can only say that rattan is often used for making bowstrings.

Some months ago, I acquired a bow in Amsterdam. It's a small one, measuring only 84 cm. It's made from wood with some rattan weaving on both ends and in the middle.
I was able to identify this piece by the two 'knobs' on the end of the bow. These are also made of wood and are used to hold the bowstring.
According to 'Dodelijk mooi' (deadly beauty/beauté fatale) this bow originates with the Luba people in Congo.

Congoblades · 27th August 2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

Hi Guy,
Nice bow, you found. Where exactly was that fleamarket ?

He Freddy, I think it was in Gent

, just joking, just another small market with only few standholders because of the rainy wether, normaly not worth going there, but you never know

and this one was near my door in Gijzegem...

fearn · 27th August 2006, 08:09 PM

Neat find!

Time to clear some issues up: yes, cane and bamboo are both members of the grass family (Poaceae). Yes, there are several canes: Arundo donax is the giant reed that is used to make the reeds for saxiphones and clarinets, while Phragmites communis is another reed. Both are used for arrows, although Phragmites might be the more widely used of the two. There are certainly other reeds, bulrushes, etc, but they aren't germane here. It is possible to make a bow out of reeds, but that's not what you have here. If you want to see a bow made from reeds, pick up The Traditional Bowyer's Bible, Volume 1

Bamboos grow all through the tropics: they're a large group of species, and a number of different species are useful for arrows. Rather fewer are useful for bows, mostly because bamboo tends to splinter under stress (I know, from having broken a friend's bamboo berimbau--a berimbau is a musical bow). The bamboo used for the bow here was definitely from a large species. It makes me think of one of the big Asian timber bamboos (Dendrocalamus), although I can't think of a way short of using DNA technology to figure out what species it is.

I'm not an expert, but African bows tend to have a pretty distinctive way of binding the string. Rather than using loops on both ends (as here), many tribes run the string over (or through) the tip of the bow, then spiral the string down the shaft and tie it off after several turns (example). That's not what we see here.

While I can't positively eliminate an African origin, to me the construction of the bow is Asian. There's an outside chance that the set is from south Indian (based on the shape of the arrowheads), I tend to think it's from South East Asia, somewhere between the eastern Himalayas and Borneo. This is based on the way the bow is built (typically Eurasian, with a woven, spliced bowstring and shoulder knocks) and the bow material (bamboo). Cane arrows are found all over the world, so the arrow material isn't very diagnostic.

My 0.02 cents,

F

katana · 27th August 2006, 08:22 PM

Hi Fearn, long time...no hear
I think we are 'in agreement' about this particular bow and arrow 'set'. I have not seen , so far, an African bow constructed of bamboo.....often bamboo is used as a laminate with other woods......my experiance still points to Asia ....where bamboo (self bows- a bow constructed of one material) were fairly common.

Flavio · 27th August 2006, 08:48 PM

Yeah, Katana, maybe is more asian than african...

Hello Freddy, i have a bow that is like yours, but if you see on Waffen aus Zentral Afrika this kind of bow are attributed to the Yaka (see attached).

Could you post a picture of the 'Dodelijk mooi'?

Thank you Fearn!

katana · 27th August 2006, 09:01 PM

Freddy and Flavio....nice bows.....are the weavings on the bow limbs decoration or do they add to the strengh of the bow? The circular end pieces are unusual ...and would surely affect the 'cast' (spring action) of the bow......do you think they may act as some sort of 'balance weight'?, decoration? or what...?

fearn · 27th August 2006, 11:25 PM

Thanks Katana,

Right now I'm on a phone line, and it took so long for the images to load that I didn't see your Indian bow image until well after my answer was posted. We definitely agree on the origin.

I'm interested in Flavio's African bow too. I'd guess that a weight at the end of the bow would slow the arms down, lessening the distance the arrow traveled. However, I don't think that African bowyers are stupid, so I'm trying to figure out what else those "mushroom ends" could do, functionally. Are those ends part of the bow, or are they separate bits of wood?

F

Bill · 28th August 2006, 03:29 AM

The bow looks like it's made of palm wood. Springing when new but brittle when it gets old. I'd guess Indonesian.

27th August 2006, 04:56 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Yeah, Congo, cane and reed are the same (Phragmites communis = Arundo phragmites). The plants that grow along the rivers or in the swampy zones Attached Images

27th August 2006, 07:52 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	This is a similar match.....India 1900's ASIAN ETHNOGRAPHIC COLLECTION Culture: INDIAN Country: INDIA Material: BAMBOO, CORD, METAL, THREAD, FEATHER Dimensions: A) L:75.2 W:10 H:1.8 B) L:53 W:3 H:2.2 C)L:49 W:2.5 H:2 [in CM] Donor: MISSIONARY Acquisition Year: 1900 Attached Images

27th August 2006, 08:48 PM	#9
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Yeah, Katana, maybe is more asian than african... Hello Freddy, i have a bow that is like yours, but if you see on Waffen aus Zentral Afrika this kind of bow are attributed to the Yaka (see attached). Could you post a picture of the 'Dodelijk mooi'? Thank you Fearn! Attached Images

27th August 2006, 07:30 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I've been checking on bamboo.... it seems that it is only available in sub-Saharan regions, if African .....this is the area to look. Asian areas it is prolific, so I tend towards S.E.A as a likely source. My understanding is that many African arrowheads are fixed to thin diameter reed which,is in turn, fixed to the main arrow shaft. However, I do not not know whether this is common to all African arrows........ I still think this is a nice item.

27th August 2006, 08:04 PM	#5
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Hi Guy, Nice bow, you found. Where exactly was that fleamarket ? I tried to find something on African bows in my books, but it isn't easy. I can only say that rattan is often used for making bowstrings. Some months ago, I acquired a bow in Amsterdam. It's a small one, measuring only 84 cm. It's made from wood with some rattan weaving on both ends and in the middle. I was able to identify this piece by the two 'knobs' on the end of the bow. These are also made of wood and are used to hold the bowstring. According to 'Dodelijk mooi' (deadly beauty/beauté fatale) this bow originates with the Luba people in Congo.

27th August 2006, 08:09 PM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Neat find! Time to clear some issues up: yes, cane and bamboo are both members of the grass family (Poaceae). Yes, there are several canes: Arundo donax is the giant reed that is used to make the reeds for saxiphones and clarinets, while Phragmites communis is another reed. Both are used for arrows, although Phragmites might be the more widely used of the two. There are certainly other reeds, bulrushes, etc, but they aren't germane here. It is possible to make a bow out of reeds, but that's not what you have here. If you want to see a bow made from reeds, pick up The Traditional Bowyer's Bible, Volume 1 Bamboos grow all through the tropics: they're a large group of species, and a number of different species are useful for arrows. Rather fewer are useful for bows, mostly because bamboo tends to splinter under stress (I know, from having broken a friend's bamboo berimbau--a berimbau is a musical bow). The bamboo used for the bow here was definitely from a large species. It makes me think of one of the big Asian timber bamboos (Dendrocalamus), although I can't think of a way short of using DNA technology to figure out what species it is. I'm not an expert, but African bows tend to have a pretty distinctive way of binding the string. Rather than using loops on both ends (as here), many tribes run the string over (or through) the tip of the bow, then spiral the string down the shaft and tie it off after several turns (example). That's not what we see here. While I can't positively eliminate an African origin, to me the construction of the bow is Asian. There's an outside chance that the set is from south Indian (based on the shape of the arrowheads), I tend to think it's from South East Asia, somewhere between the eastern Himalayas and Borneo. This is based on the way the bow is built (typically Eurasian, with a woven, spliced bowstring and shoulder knocks) and the bow material (bamboo). Cane arrows are found all over the world, so the arrow material isn't very diagnostic. My 0.02 cents, F

27th August 2006, 08:22 PM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Fearn, long time...no hear I think we are 'in agreement' about this particular bow and arrow 'set'. I have not seen , so far, an African bow constructed of bamboo.....often bamboo is used as a laminate with other woods......my experiance still points to Asia ....where bamboo (self bows- a bow constructed of one material) were fairly common.

27th August 2006, 09:01 PM	#10
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Freddy and Flavio....nice bows.....are the weavings on the bow limbs decoration or do they add to the strengh of the bow? The circular end pieces are unusual ...and would surely affect the 'cast' (spring action) of the bow......do you think they may act as some sort of 'balance weight'?, decoration? or what...?

27th August 2006, 11:25 PM	#11
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Thanks Katana, Right now I'm on a phone line, and it took so long for the images to load that I didn't see your Indian bow image until well after my answer was posted. We definitely agree on the origin. I'm interested in Flavio's African bow too. I'd guess that a weight at the end of the bow would slow the arms down, lessening the distance the arrow traveled. However, I don't think that African bowyers are stupid, so I'm trying to figure out what else those "mushroom ends" could do, functionally. Are those ends part of the bow, or are they separate bits of wood? F

28th August 2006, 03:29 AM	#12
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	The bow looks like it's made of palm wood. Springing when new but brittle when it gets old. I'd guess Indonesian.