Bow and arrows from ?

Congoblades · 27th August 2006, 04:14 PM

The seller mentioned Indonesia? but on a fleemarket they enything wrong or wright, is this possible? Indonesia?

Flavio, the "cord" is also from bamboo, just the ends are attached with a cord on the bow.
I have many arrows from africa but never made of bamboo, maybe there are such from africa but I didn't see any so far

Katana, I dare not stretch the bow, maybe it will break, otherwice I would give it a try

Flavio · 27th August 2006, 04:28 PM

Congoblades, the two that i have posted they have the shaft made of reed. Maybe yours is not bamboo, but simple cane? Anyway many arrows in Africa show shaft made of cane. Also could be that the bow and the arrows came from different parts of the world, and more, could be that both aren't african because, since a bow is strictly related to the function that it has, the material and the shape could be very close in distant and different parts of world.

Congoblades · 27th August 2006, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Congoblades, the two that i have posted they have the shaft made of reed. Maybe yours is not bamboo, but simple cane? Anyway many arrows in Africa show shaft made of cane. Also could be that the bow and the arrows came from different parts of the world, and more, could be that both aren't african because, since a bow is strictly related to the function that it has, the material and the shape could be very close in distant and different parts of world.

Flavio, a better look at the cord tells me it is the same matirial as the bow, same structure and olso the same bulges, typical for bamboo.
Reed and cane, translating these gives me the same answer for both?
Greets Guy

Flavio · 27th August 2006, 04:56 PM

Yeah, Congo, cane and reed are the same (Phragmites communis = Arundo phragmites). The plants that grow along the rivers or in the swampy zones

katana · 27th August 2006, 07:30 PM

I've been checking on bamboo.... it seems that it is only available in sub-Saharan regions, if African .....this is the area to look. Asian areas it is prolific, so I tend towards S.E.A as a likely source. My understanding is that many African arrowheads are fixed to thin diameter reed which,is in turn, fixed to the main arrow shaft. However, I do not not know whether this is common to all African arrows........ I still think this is a nice item.

katana · 27th August 2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Yeah, Congo, cane and reed are the same (Phragmites communis = Arundo phragmites). The plants that grow along the rivers or in the swampy zones

Flavio is correct.....reed and bamboo are all related to grass

katana · 27th August 2006, 07:52 PM

This is a similar match.....India 1900's

ASIAN ETHNOGRAPHIC COLLECTION
Culture: INDIAN
Country: INDIA
Material: BAMBOO, CORD, METAL, THREAD, FEATHER
Dimensions: A) L:75.2 W:10 H:1.8 B) L:53 W:3 H:2.2 C)L:49 W:2.5 H:2 [in CM]
Donor: MISSIONARY
Acquisition Year: 1900

Freddy · 27th August 2006, 08:04 PM

Hi Guy,
Nice bow, you found. Where exactly was that fleamarket ?

I tried to find something on African bows in my books, but it isn't easy.

I can only say that rattan is often used for making bowstrings.

Some months ago, I acquired a bow in Amsterdam. It's a small one, measuring only 84 cm. It's made from wood with some rattan weaving on both ends and in the middle.
I was able to identify this piece by the two 'knobs' on the end of the bow. These are also made of wood and are used to hold the bowstring.
According to 'Dodelijk mooi' (deadly beauty/beauté fatale) this bow originates with the Luba people in Congo.

Congoblades · 27th August 2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

Hi Guy,
Nice bow, you found. Where exactly was that fleamarket ?

He Freddy, I think it was in Gent

, just joking, just another small market with only few standholders because of the rainy wether, normaly not worth going there, but you never know

and this one was near my door in Gijzegem...

fearn · 27th August 2006, 08:09 PM

Neat find!

Time to clear some issues up: yes, cane and bamboo are both members of the grass family (Poaceae). Yes, there are several canes: Arundo donax is the giant reed that is used to make the reeds for saxiphones and clarinets, while Phragmites communis is another reed. Both are used for arrows, although Phragmites might be the more widely used of the two. There are certainly other reeds, bulrushes, etc, but they aren't germane here. It is possible to make a bow out of reeds, but that's not what you have here. If you want to see a bow made from reeds, pick up The Traditional Bowyer's Bible, Volume 1

Bamboos grow all through the tropics: they're a large group of species, and a number of different species are useful for arrows. Rather fewer are useful for bows, mostly because bamboo tends to splinter under stress (I know, from having broken a friend's bamboo berimbau--a berimbau is a musical bow). The bamboo used for the bow here was definitely from a large species. It makes me think of one of the big Asian timber bamboos (Dendrocalamus), although I can't think of a way short of using DNA technology to figure out what species it is.

I'm not an expert, but African bows tend to have a pretty distinctive way of binding the string. Rather than using loops on both ends (as here), many tribes run the string over (or through) the tip of the bow, then spiral the string down the shaft and tie it off after several turns (example). That's not what we see here.

While I can't positively eliminate an African origin, to me the construction of the bow is Asian. There's an outside chance that the set is from south Indian (based on the shape of the arrowheads), I tend to think it's from South East Asia, somewhere between the eastern Himalayas and Borneo. This is based on the way the bow is built (typically Eurasian, with a woven, spliced bowstring and shoulder knocks) and the bow material (bamboo). Cane arrows are found all over the world, so the arrow material isn't very diagnostic.

My 0.02 cents,

F

katana · 27th August 2006, 08:22 PM

Hi Fearn, long time...no hear
I think we are 'in agreement' about this particular bow and arrow 'set'. I have not seen , so far, an African bow constructed of bamboo.....often bamboo is used as a laminate with other woods......my experiance still points to Asia ....where bamboo (self bows- a bow constructed of one material) were fairly common.

Flavio · 27th August 2006, 08:48 PM

Yeah, Katana, maybe is more asian than african...

Hello Freddy, i have a bow that is like yours, but if you see on Waffen aus Zentral Afrika this kind of bow are attributed to the Yaka (see attached).

Could you post a picture of the 'Dodelijk mooi'?

Thank you Fearn!

utami · 30th August 2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Congoblades

The seller mentioned Indonesia? but on a fleemarket they enything wrong or wright, is this possible? Indonesia?

Hei, conggo. Pretty bow & arrow you have

.

I had seen the bow from Kalimantan, papua, Sunda.
Thought by me your bow was different did not come from this area.

Hope this help.

Congoblades · 30th August 2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utami

Hei, conggo. Pretty bow & arrow you have

.

I had seen the bow from Kalimantan, papua, Sunda.
Thought by me your bow was different did not come from this area.

Hope this help.

Thanks, now I know where it not came from

27th August 2006, 04:56 PM	#4
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Yeah, Congo, cane and reed are the same (Phragmites communis = Arundo phragmites). The plants that grow along the rivers or in the swampy zones Attached Images

27th August 2006, 07:52 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	This is a similar match.....India 1900's ASIAN ETHNOGRAPHIC COLLECTION Culture: INDIAN Country: INDIA Material: BAMBOO, CORD, METAL, THREAD, FEATHER Dimensions: A) L:75.2 W:10 H:1.8 B) L:53 W:3 H:2.2 C)L:49 W:2.5 H:2 [in CM] Donor: MISSIONARY Acquisition Year: 1900 Attached Images

27th August 2006, 08:48 PM	#12
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Yeah, Katana, maybe is more asian than african... Hello Freddy, i have a bow that is like yours, but if you see on Waffen aus Zentral Afrika this kind of bow are attributed to the Yaka (see attached). Could you post a picture of the 'Dodelijk mooi'? Thank you Fearn! Attached Images

27th August 2006, 04:14 PM	#1
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	The seller mentioned Indonesia? but on a fleemarket they enything wrong or wright, is this possible? Indonesia? Flavio, the "cord" is also from bamboo, just the ends are attached with a cord on the bow. I have many arrows from africa but never made of bamboo, maybe there are such from africa but I didn't see any so far Katana, I dare not stretch the bow, maybe it will break, otherwice I would give it a try

27th August 2006, 04:28 PM	#2
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Congoblades, the two that i have posted they have the shaft made of reed. Maybe yours is not bamboo, but simple cane? Anyway many arrows in Africa show shaft made of cane. Also could be that the bow and the arrows came from different parts of the world, and more, could be that both aren't african because, since a bow is strictly related to the function that it has, the material and the shape could be very close in distant and different parts of world.

27th August 2006, 07:30 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I've been checking on bamboo.... it seems that it is only available in sub-Saharan regions, if African .....this is the area to look. Asian areas it is prolific, so I tend towards S.E.A as a likely source. My understanding is that many African arrowheads are fixed to thin diameter reed which,is in turn, fixed to the main arrow shaft. However, I do not not know whether this is common to all African arrows........ I still think this is a nice item.

27th August 2006, 08:04 PM	#8
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Hi Guy, Nice bow, you found. Where exactly was that fleamarket ? I tried to find something on African bows in my books, but it isn't easy. I can only say that rattan is often used for making bowstrings. Some months ago, I acquired a bow in Amsterdam. It's a small one, measuring only 84 cm. It's made from wood with some rattan weaving on both ends and in the middle. I was able to identify this piece by the two 'knobs' on the end of the bow. These are also made of wood and are used to hold the bowstring. According to 'Dodelijk mooi' (deadly beauty/beauté fatale) this bow originates with the Luba people in Congo.

27th August 2006, 08:09 PM	#10
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Neat find! Time to clear some issues up: yes, cane and bamboo are both members of the grass family (Poaceae). Yes, there are several canes: Arundo donax is the giant reed that is used to make the reeds for saxiphones and clarinets, while Phragmites communis is another reed. Both are used for arrows, although Phragmites might be the more widely used of the two. There are certainly other reeds, bulrushes, etc, but they aren't germane here. It is possible to make a bow out of reeds, but that's not what you have here. If you want to see a bow made from reeds, pick up The Traditional Bowyer's Bible, Volume 1 Bamboos grow all through the tropics: they're a large group of species, and a number of different species are useful for arrows. Rather fewer are useful for bows, mostly because bamboo tends to splinter under stress (I know, from having broken a friend's bamboo berimbau--a berimbau is a musical bow). The bamboo used for the bow here was definitely from a large species. It makes me think of one of the big Asian timber bamboos (Dendrocalamus), although I can't think of a way short of using DNA technology to figure out what species it is. I'm not an expert, but African bows tend to have a pretty distinctive way of binding the string. Rather than using loops on both ends (as here), many tribes run the string over (or through) the tip of the bow, then spiral the string down the shaft and tie it off after several turns (example). That's not what we see here. While I can't positively eliminate an African origin, to me the construction of the bow is Asian. There's an outside chance that the set is from south Indian (based on the shape of the arrowheads), I tend to think it's from South East Asia, somewhere between the eastern Himalayas and Borneo. This is based on the way the bow is built (typically Eurasian, with a woven, spliced bowstring and shoulder knocks) and the bow material (bamboo). Cane arrows are found all over the world, so the arrow material isn't very diagnostic. My 0.02 cents, F

27th August 2006, 08:22 PM	#11
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Fearn, long time...no hear I think we are 'in agreement' about this particular bow and arrow 'set'. I have not seen , so far, an African bow constructed of bamboo.....often bamboo is used as a laminate with other woods......my experiance still points to Asia ....where bamboo (self bows- a bow constructed of one material) were fairly common.