Wiccan Mysteries: Athame and Boline (or Bolline)

nechesh · 3rd February 2005, 10:25 PM

Hi Fearn,
Gardner did indeed write a well known book called "Keris and other Malay Weapons" (1937?), not to be confused with the book of the same name that features many different writers (including an article by Gardner). A copy of this book would be quite pricy as it is very rare.
Gardner is known as the father of modern Wicca, but most of his work is a rehashing (with certain changes of his own, including a strong penchant for nude ritual

) of Victorian era Ceremonial Magick from such lodge groups as the Golden Dawn, of which, i believe he was a member. He was also a student of Aleister Crowley.

Many of the powerful grimores and manuscripts on which the magickal lodges were based were "discovered" in secret places or delivered by "mysterious" adepts from legendary and shadowy groups such as the Bravarian Illuminati.

What i'm getting at here is that "modern" magick and Wicca, though obviously connected to arcane knowledge, is basically a new philosophy. This is not to argue that it's all made up and wrong. I am more likely to argue that it is all made up and RIGHT!

But if you are looking for some ancient root to these words you may end up being disappointed.

nechesh · 3rd February 2005, 10:43 PM

You can find pretty accurate descriptions of there uses and pronouncations here. (it's not that no one knows how to pronouce them, it's just a tomato/tomoto thingy

) Unfortunately, no etomology here.
http://www.denelder.com/glossary/a.html

fearn · 3rd February 2005, 10:56 PM

Hi Nechesh,

Thanks for the info on the book. That solves one thing. Still, the Athame/Bolline question remains. Did those names spring from Gardner's fertile imagination, or did he get them from somewhere else?

I don't disagree that Wicca is a new religion. The fun part is trying to figure out where the pieces came from.

Fearn.

Alam Shah · 4th February 2005, 07:11 AM

Title: Keris and other Malay weapons
Author: G.B. Gardner, Ed.B.Lumsden Milne,
Publishers: Progressive Publishers, Singapore 1936,
Herdruk: E.P Publishing Ltd, East Ardsley, Wakefield-Yorkshire, England 1973,
ISBN: 0-85409-944-1

fearn · 4th February 2005, 01:14 PM

Thanks Alam Shah,

I was searching for it on a couple of university library websites, and I see what Nechesh means about it being rare.

Personally, I'm hoping that one of our Arabic speakers will give us a translation of "blood-letter" or at least tell us whether adh-dhame is Arabic.

F

Alam Shah · 4th February 2005, 03:59 PM

Keris and other Malay weapons (re-print).
is availabe at:
http://www.selectbooks.com.sg/titles/28038.htm

If you're thinking of getting this in a library...then it will take a long time, if you can get it.

Alam Shah · 4th February 2005, 04:36 PM

The Athame
The athame is a magick knife. It is not used for cutting, but to direct energy raised during rites and spells. It is usually a dull, double-edged knife with a black or dark colored handle. Black absorbs power. Athames are sometimes engraved with magickal symbols. The knife absorbs power from you and the area around you. The symbolism of the knife is change. It is linked with the Element of Fire. Its straight phallic shape links it with the God.

The Athame is used in salutes to gods, goddesses and the Ancient Ones, and for a variety of other purposes. None of these purposes, interestingly enough, include the traditional function of a knife as a tool. As a penetrating tool, the Athame represents the masculine aspect of divinity, just as the Chalice represents the feminine aspect. The term, of unknown origin, was first seen in Medieval grimoires.

The Boline
A boline is used to actually cut herbs, cloth and many other magickal items. You need a knife that will hold a sharp edge. This is the Witches working knife.

4th February 2005, 07:11 AM	#4
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	The book details... Title: Keris and other Malay weapons Author: G.B. Gardner, Ed.B.Lumsden Milne, Publishers: Progressive Publishers, Singapore 1936, Herdruk: E.P Publishing Ltd, East Ardsley, Wakefield-Yorkshire, England 1973, ISBN: 0-85409-944-1

4th February 2005, 03:59 PM	#6
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Book available for purchase... Keris and other Malay weapons (re-print). is availabe at: http://www.selectbooks.com.sg/titles/28038.htm If you're thinking of getting this in a library...then it will take a long time, if you can get it.

4th February 2005, 04:36 PM	#7
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	The 2 types of knives... The Athame The athame is a magick knife. It is not used for cutting, but to direct energy raised during rites and spells. It is usually a dull, double-edged knife with a black or dark colored handle. Black absorbs power. Athames are sometimes engraved with magickal symbols. The knife absorbs power from you and the area around you. The symbolism of the knife is change. It is linked with the Element of Fire. Its straight phallic shape links it with the God. The Athame is used in salutes to gods, goddesses and the Ancient Ones, and for a variety of other purposes. None of these purposes, interestingly enough, include the traditional function of a knife as a tool. As a penetrating tool, the Athame represents the masculine aspect of divinity, just as the Chalice represents the feminine aspect. The term, of unknown origin, was first seen in Medieval grimoires. The Boline A boline is used to actually cut herbs, cloth and many other magickal items. You need a knife that will hold a sharp edge. This is the Witches working knife.

3rd February 2005, 10:25 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Fearn, Gardner did indeed write a well known book called "Keris and other Malay Weapons" (1937?), not to be confused with the book of the same name that features many different writers (including an article by Gardner). A copy of this book would be quite pricy as it is very rare. Gardner is known as the father of modern Wicca, but most of his work is a rehashing (with certain changes of his own, including a strong penchant for nude ritual ) of Victorian era Ceremonial Magick from such lodge groups as the Golden Dawn, of which, i believe he was a member. He was also a student of Aleister Crowley. Many of the powerful grimores and manuscripts on which the magickal lodges were based were "discovered" in secret places or delivered by "mysterious" adepts from legendary and shadowy groups such as the Bravarian Illuminati. What i'm getting at here is that "modern" magick and Wicca, though obviously connected to arcane knowledge, is basically a new philosophy. This is not to argue that it's all made up and wrong. I am more likely to argue that it is all made up and RIGHT! But if you are looking for some ancient root to these words you may end up being disappointed.

3rd February 2005, 10:43 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	You can find pretty accurate descriptions of there uses and pronouncations here. (it's not that no one knows how to pronouce them, it's just a tomato/tomoto thingy ) Unfortunately, no etomology here. http://www.denelder.com/glossary/a.html

3rd February 2005, 10:56 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Nechesh, Thanks for the info on the book. That solves one thing. Still, the Athame/Bolline question remains. Did those names spring from Gardner's fertile imagination, or did he get them from somewhere else? I don't disagree that Wicca is a new religion. The fun part is trying to figure out where the pieces came from. Fearn.

4th February 2005, 01:14 PM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Thanks Alam Shah, I was searching for it on a couple of university library websites, and I see what Nechesh means about it being rare. Personally, I'm hoping that one of our Arabic speakers will give us a translation of "blood-letter" or at least tell us whether adh-dhame is Arabic. F