Pamor Identification ?

Marcokeris · 15th August 2006, 02:11 PM

Is it possible to see any pictures where i can see the real difference between pamor lar gansir and pamor ganggeng kanyut?

A. G. Maisey · 15th August 2006, 09:54 PM

Marco, this is often a matter of interpretation, or understanding.

The picture that Rick published could be shown to a number of people of my acquaintance, in Solo, in Central Jawa, and would most likely be called "ganggeng kanyut", or "kenanga ginubah". I`m not talking about people who do not understand keris here, but about people above middle age with much keris experience. In reality, on the ground, in everyday discussion, people tend not to be particularly pedantic with pamor identification.

As an example, pamor wos wutah has a number of variations, but people handling and dealing with keris on a day to day basis will almost invariably refer to all these variations simply as "wos wutah".

Then you can get variations in names for the same pamor when you move from one location to another.

If one moves into a Javanese keris study group, pamors will be defined much more closely than they are by the people involved in the keris trade, but then the question arises as to just how accurate these definitions are, and whether they are accepted universally, or only within one study group or another.

To address your specific question.
One of the Tammens books has diagrams of pamor patterns, and these are quite useful, because they give a guide to the overall characteristics to be found in a particular pamor pattern.
The "Keris Jawa" book that has been discussed in another thread gives excellent (computer enhanced ?) drawings showing various pamors, which would be useful where a pamor has been cleanly and perfectly executed, but might not be so useful where a pamor is less than perfect.

15th August 2006, 02:11 PM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Is it possible to see any pictures where i can see the real difference between pamor lar gansir and pamor ganggeng kanyut?

15th August 2006, 09:54 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	Marco, this is often a matter of interpretation, or understanding. The picture that Rick published could be shown to a number of people of my acquaintance, in Solo, in Central Jawa, and would most likely be called "ganggeng kanyut", or "kenanga ginubah". I`m not talking about people who do not understand keris here, but about people above middle age with much keris experience. In reality, on the ground, in everyday discussion, people tend not to be particularly pedantic with pamor identification. As an example, pamor wos wutah has a number of variations, but people handling and dealing with keris on a day to day basis will almost invariably refer to all these variations simply as "wos wutah". Then you can get variations in names for the same pamor when you move from one location to another. If one moves into a Javanese keris study group, pamors will be defined much more closely than they are by the people involved in the keris trade, but then the question arises as to just how accurate these definitions are, and whether they are accepted universally, or only within one study group or another. To address your specific question. One of the Tammens books has diagrams of pamor patterns, and these are quite useful, because they give a guide to the overall characteristics to be found in a particular pamor pattern. The "Keris Jawa" book that has been discussed in another thread gives excellent (computer enhanced ?) drawings showing various pamors, which would be useful where a pamor has been cleanly and perfectly executed, but might not be so useful where a pamor is less than perfect.